Insurance Problems

[Midwest Classic]

I will check into the engine size that you mentioned. I do ask what motor they have in the vehicle and surprisingly enough I don't find too many 289s, gee isn't that where they started. Going from memory we find a lot 351s, 427s, and a few 302s. I don't want to give anyone a heart attack this morning but we even have 2 350s that I can remember.

[Ron61]

CobraBill,

Not trying to start an argument, but wouldn't your analysis about not being allowed to own a Cobra until you worked your way up to it apply to any high performance car? You want a Corvette you have to start with a Chevette, No longer made thank goodness, then a mild V-8 and so on.
I have witnessed to many crashes and some of them involved Cobras and for the most part, it was showing off and inexperience with any type of high performance car that caused the crash. I am one of the oldest people still allowed to drive, I have been to high performance driving schools, and have more years of driving than most of you are old, but I still do not know all there is to it. Same at the track. More problems from new people who have followed the pace car around a few laps and then think they are qualified. Kind of like the computer answer to the problem. PSBK. The main problem I think is just people over driving their abilities and not really knowing the handling characterstics of their cars, regardless of what kind of car it is. And all of us pay for it in terms of higher insurance rates.

Ron

[nevermind65]

Originally Posted by Midwest Classic

I will check into the engine size that you mentioned. I do ask what motor they have in the vehicle and surprisingly enough I don't find too many 289s, gee isn't that where they started. Going from memory we find a lot 351s, 427s, and a few 302s. I don't want to give anyone a heart attack this morning but we even have 2 350s that I can remember.

Maybe we all need to put some of these numbers into perspective.

First, a few simple questions.

1) How many Cobras do you insure? Is it 50, 100, 200?
2) You stated in your original post that you were looking at a 3 month average. What was the yearly pay-out over say the last 5 years?

I don't mean these questions as a "put me on the spot" type of thing, but most insurance companies are notorious for twisting percentages in their favor to increase rates, drop coverage on a vehicle they don't make ENOUGH money on, or avoid a hefty pay-out in the future.

Thank you for all the information throughout this thread. If nothing else, it opened my eyes a bit.

[DAVID GAGNARD]

This has been a very interesting/informative thread....This is going to be a somewhat long post, so beware, and IT IS NOT meant to start any kind of argument, I will try to present what I know....

I do not own a Cobra and probably never will, so I have NO dog in this fight, but I feel for the Cobra owners and Midwest Classic brings up some valid points.... If some things do not change,Cobra owners will face very high premiums when they can find them and some will not be able to insure their cars, not good for the hobby.....

I do own a 65 Mustang Fastback (GT-350 clone)(insured as a classic car) that is an occassional driver and a 65 Mustang coupe which is not street legal and a dedicated road race car(no insurance of any kind)...I have been to driving schools in the past and will go to more in the future, I have nothing but good to say for driving schools,I always learn something at them, not matter how good I think I am, also learned real quick how little I DO KNOW about high performance driving/racing.....

I work in the automobile insurance industry in claims, been doing this for 14 years now, I work an average of 1000 auto claims a year, so I guess I can safely say I've seen it all.................First off, any insurance company is just that, a company, it has to make a profit to stay in business.... The company I work for is a national company that also sells insurance other than strictly autos, they have to to stay in business....the parish (county) I live in is one of 64 in the state of Louisiana, the company I work for LOSES on average approx. ONE MILLION dollars a year on auto insurance in my parish alone, not all parish's are like this, but many are..!!!!!!!!! the homeowners side of things makes enough money to offset this loss and show an overall profit and that's why they still do business in the state....this is not classic car insurance, but you get the idea....

One post said something to the effect that he never saw an insurance company go out of business, well, in the last 7 years, three have gone out of business in this state and two more have quit doing any business in the state,and two more are cutting back their business in the state and have plans to phase out all auto policies within the next two years, it does happen!!!!!!!!!

another post said something to the effect that 10% of the drivers cause 90% of the claims, I couldn't agree more, in classic car insurance that 10% are COBRA DRIVERS....it is a fact of life, like it or not.... that's why insurance companies are not renewing policies and getting away from insuring Cobras altogether, simple economics.........many varaibles are taken into account when determining the cost to insure a specific car, # of cylinders/hp,body style (sedan,coupe, convertible, station wagon, sports car,etc.),average age of the owners,average number of miles driven a year by the owners, cost of repairs, cost of the vehicle.... Say an 07 Mustang cost the same as say an 07 Corwn Vic and the costs of repairs is about the same, which would be less expensive to insure????? I don't have the figures in front of me, but I think the average age of the owners of the Crown Vic is around 50 years old or a little more, the average age of the Mustang owner is probably no more than 25....which is more likely to have an accident???? You get the idea by this comparison......same goes with Cobras as compared to lets say Street Rods or classic cars built before 1940.....

don't see anyone offering me reduced rates because I have no accidents or tickets...

I DO, I've been insured with the same company since the early 90's with my Fastback, fortunetly, I've never had an accident and never had to make a claim on the car and after 3 years, I started getting a 10% discount on my yearly premium and have been getting this discount ever since.................

I'll be the first to state I have done my share of stoplight to stoplight street racing in the past, but after I got into "orangized" racing, the desire to street race disappeared.....I do think the driving schools has helped me to be a better driver on the street and the racing aspect has left me with NO desire to street race....

Go to a local "crusie nite" and watch the participants leave, I have, it's to see who can show just how fast their car is, you-tube is full of these mishaps, three of which I've seen lately were by Cobra drivers in their cars!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
they were being just plain dumb and wrecked their cars!!!!!!!!!!the "ricers" are not far behind..........

I don't have all the answers, but as a whole, the Cobra owners are heading downhill with the insurance industry right now....Driving schools, safe driving records can help, but I really don't see things getting better as the number of Cobras on the road increases every year.....people owning/driving Cobras need to take more responsability for their actions and try to be safer drivers if they expect to keep driving their cars...... How many post's have we seen in the last few years on this forum of Cobra crashes??? how many deaths???? How many were "street racing"???? the numbers may not seem high to some, but compare those numbers to any other group of classic cars and you'll be suprised at how safe some of the other groups are!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am just like every other Joe here, I have four cars insured and pay enough premium and I for one would like to see my premiums drop, but I'm being realistic about the whole thing, it's not going to happen any time soon.......

Get the manufacturers and clubs involved big time. Make the insurance provider a "participation" company which pays dividends to their insureds for profits rather than to shareholders. Cap the payout. If you are involved in a serious accident while drunk or drag racing...you have bigger problems than increasing premiums and the insurer should not be paying through the nose for your mistakes. These claims are no "accident". AND...no loopholes are necessary. Maybe not the policy for everyone, but for enthusiasts like me... where do I sign and send my check?

Realistic Limitations I drive the car on public roads I'm covered...period. Give me a 5,000, 10,000 or 15,000 per year mileage option. No coverage for track or comp. damage. As Barber would say "That's Racing!"

Realistic Deductible Give me a $1,000, $5,000 or $10,000 option for (not at fault) comp. and collision If its my fault, however, I pay too. Maximum coverage for an at fault accident $50,000 or 50% of the damage. That will keep everyone diligent and on the same team. Anyone that has the time to file a $2.00 claim should not be driving a Cobra. These are Yugo infiltrators that run up everyone elses rate.

Red; You have made some very valid points and I agree with all of them, especially the drunk drivers, but an insurance company would not sell but a handful of policies like the one your looking for(my guess is they would be dirt cheap), and I would love to see a policy like that offered, NO ONE wants to be held accountable for their actions, just let the insurance company pay for their supid mistakes that's what I pay my premium for!!!!!!!! and in the end you and I and the Cobra community suffer by not being able to get reasonble insurance rates and possibly in the near future not being able to find ANY insruance at all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have many times told the undewriting department they should have a "stupidity clause" in every policy, then when some soccer mom gives her 14 year old daughter(with NO drivers license and NO driving experience other than driving in the pasture once or twice) the keys to her $30,000.00 SUV to go joy riding on sunday afternoon and she totals it, flipping it 4 times and a large tree stopped it from flipping more while doing an estimated 80 mph in a 35 mph speed zone,we could tell her "it's your fault",not ours, so now you pay the damages out of your pocket......total bill including meds was in excees of 50 grand!!!!!!!!!

David

[Midwest Classic]

Originally Posted by nevermind65

Maybe we all need to put some of these numbers into perspective.

First, a few simple questions.

1) How many Cobras do you insure? Is it 50, 100, 200?
2) You stated in your original post that you were looking at a 3 month average. What was the yearly pay-out over say the last 5 years?

I don't mean these questions as a "put me on the spot" type of thing, but most insurance companies are notorious for twisting percentages in their favor to increase rates, drop coverage on a vehicle they don't make ENOUGH money on, or avoid a hefty pay-out in the future.

Thank you for all the information throughout this thread. If nothing else, it opened my eyes a bit.

I really can not answer your question about how many we insure. We have been insuring a lot more in the past three years than the prior twenty-seven I have been insuring vehicles. We do not track how many of a particular vehicle we insure but I do know that Cobras are becoming the larger part of a single style vehicle we insure, if that makes sense.

When I looked at numbers I originally looked at my last quarterly report and then we went back and looked at the past three years at all claims over $10,000. That is where the Cobras really showed up.

Keep in mind I am not the Company, I am an agency. We get paid two different ways. The first on commission so the more we write the more I make, the second on contingency which is if we have a good loss ratio we can generally get an override on the total book. I am wanting to continue writing Cobras but as a profitable part of the book of business. If the Company would stop writing Cobras, I lose. That is the reason I started the thread just to get some ideas and make people that own the cars aware of what I see, could be lurking in their future.

There is no number twisting done on my part, just information I wanted to pass on to any interested party.

Thanks for the response and questions.

Robbin

[CobraDan]

Originally Posted by Midwest Classic

I will check into the engine size that you mentioned. I do ask what motor they have in the vehicle and surprisingly enough I don't find too many 289s, gee isn't that where they started. Going from memory we find a lot 351s, 427s, and a few 302s. I don't want to give anyone a heart attack this morning but we even have 2 350s that I can remember.

Knowing the size of an engine really means nothing other than from the numbers you might know if you are looking at a SB or a BB and even this means nothing any more as some engines with the cubic displacement of say 427 may be a SB or a BB. What you are really after is the actually horse power rating of the engine in that particular Cobra. But without an actual Dyno test of the engine knowing the true HP would often be hard to come by. Then you have to look into the weight of the Cobra where 2,100 lbs. with a 90 inch wheelbase is the norm but what if the Cobra comes in closer to 3,400 lbs. and has the wheel base of a C3 Corvette as mine does, hell I’m sure that it even passed a crash test for Chevy before it was put on the road. The 454 LS6 BB back in 1970 even had Chevy lying about its real HP rating as it was given a rating of only 450HP. Today the stock Corvette with an entirely different rating system has their SB at 405HP and a SB ZO6 at 500HP and they are working on a 600-700HP engine for future years.