Insurance Problems

[WarrenG]

Originally Posted by fsstnotch

I am sure you do not maintain this info, but I would be interested to know how many of these tall claim were from people who ACTUALLY built their cars. I just feel like people who spend YEARS building their cars, have a better appreciation and respect for what goes into them. Not to say that there aren't people out there who do stupid things intheir cars that they built, just that my general assumption would be that they have a better understanding of what they're getting into. Kind of like when mommy and daddy buy their 16 yr old a really nice car. I had to buy my first car, so you better believe I made sure it was taken care of because if I broke it, I was also paying to have it fixed!

Personally, i plan to insure my car at exactly what I have in parts BOUGHT. Since I already have my engine and tranny, parts bought will be the kit and wheels/tires for the most part. If I wreck the car, I'll strip the good parts off of it, and build another. It's part of the fun! Again, part of why I believe that the majority of these claims are Bought cars, Not built cars.

Josh

Pretty moronic assumption IMHO! So the person who their car has more respect and knowledge of what it can or cannot do than the person that laid out $50-70K or more to purchase one? Sorry, I'm not buying it! If anything the person who put theirs together instead of buying a professionally built one would be more of a possible liability since the insurer has no way of knowing the quality of the build and whether or not the car will stay together on the road. Besides, I'd expect the builder/owner to be the first one to go out and push the car to the max to see what his handywork was capable of.

[Naumoff]

Originally Posted by WarrenG

Pretty moronic assumption IMHO! So the person who their car has more respect and knowledge of what it can or cannot do than the person that laid out $50-70K or more to purchase one? Sorry, I'm not buying it! If anything the person who put theirs together instead of buying a professionally built one would be more of a possible liability since the insurer has no way of knowing the quality of the build and whether or not the car will stay together on the road. Besides, I'd expect the builder/owner to be the first one to go out and push the car to the max to see what his handywork was capable of.

Now your assuming something. Warren G.

[lucforce]

Originally Posted by Naumoff

Now your assuming something. Warren G.

Exactly

[fsstnotch]

Originally Posted by WarrenG

Pretty moronic assumption IMHO! So the person who their car has more respect and knowledge of what it can or cannot do than the person that laid out $50-70K or more to purchase one? Sorry, I'm not buying it! If anything the person who put theirs together instead of buying a professionally built one would be more of a possible liability since the insurer has no way of knowing the quality of the build and whether or not the car will stay together on the road. Besides, I'd expect the builder/owner to be the first one to go out and push the car to the max to see what his handywork was capable of.

Well Moron, it was an opinion. Much like yours! My point, a guy walks into a dealer and drops 50-70k on a cobra. A very powerful RACE CAR! This person has plenty of MONEY and no ABILITY or EXPERIENCE driving a car with such power. Therefore, no business buying one until he does have some experience with a HP car. If you had read my further posts I agreed with Robin about insurance companies insuring a built car more easily than a home built kit. Like Robin said, it's a double ended sword.

Comparitively, I could walk into a store or hit up ebay and buy myself an airplane. I have never flown an airplane in my life. Now how much sense does that make?

I did not say that EVERYONE who buys their car goes out and crashes it. I'm saying that IMHO, those are the people who are more dangerous. But I completely agree that buying an assembled car could be safer for an insurance company. Not necessarily safer for you! Remember, the insurance company is only more willing to insure assembled cars because if it fails due to build quiality, they are not liable. Not because an assembled car is assembled any better than a kit.

Just out of curiosity, did you buy your car or did you build it from a kit? How much experience did you have with HP cars before buying/building your cobra? See, your ASSUMPTION could be biased. I was afraid that stating my opinion would upset some of the "buyers" in the thread. But chances are, if you are offended by my assumption. You are probably not the problem.

If you also read, Robin stated that most of the claims WERE originally rollers. So maybe my ASSUMPTION isn't as "moronic" as you think.

My point exactly, BDR gets 31k worth of INSURANCE repairs because the owner ran a red light...
Gettin' Down In the BDR!

Josh

[WarrenG]

Originally Posted by fsstnotch

Well Moron, it was an opinion. Much like yours! My point, a guy walks into a dealer and drops 50-70k on a cobra. A very powerful RACE CAR! This person has plenty of MONEY and no ABILITY or EXPERIENCE driving a car with such power. Therefore, no business buying one until he does have some experience with a HP car.

Comparitively, I could walk into a store or hit up ebay and buy myself an airplane. I have never flown an airplane in my life. Now how much sense does that make?


Just out of curiosity, did you buy your car or did you build it from a kit? How much experience did you have with HP cars before buying/building your cobra?


Josh

Sure you could go out and buy an airplane, but you couldn't legally fly it without (as pilot in command) without a license. Nor could you fly solo without an endorsement from a certified instructor. Get your license in a Cessna 150 and then want to fly an aircraft with retractable gear or variable pitch prop? No insurance company is going to cover you without an endorsement from a certified instructor. My suggestion was that the same should be true for HP cars.

As far as my experience, probably not near as much as most in this club but enough to have learned to respect the limitations of the vehicle and the laws of physics and the consequences of exceeding those laws. 60's muscle cars, MG's, Porsche's, Corvettes and 35 years of engineering experience.

As much as I would have liked to build my own, it's pretty much impossible when you're typically only home 4-6 days out of any given month. I have met some owners (so far only non-builders) who have absolutely no idea what is under the fiberglass (so far no aluminum ones) skin of their car and I wonder whether they're really in it because they love the car or the perceived status that it brings, but I still get tired of the frequent inferences that I just bought my way into this out of laziness with no thought for the responsibility driving a car like this carries.

[Naumoff]

Cobras have dominated the kit car market for sometime. I think we just have a lot of enthusiastic people who want one just because and do not have a full understanding and appreciation of what a Cobra is.

You are not to push a car(any car) to its limit on the public roads.
I choose to pick a safe environment to do that in.

Every driver should take safety classes on handling there vehicle no matter what kind it is. Driving my car to the limit in a safe supervised class does not make me want to push it to its limit on the street. Maybe that is just me.

[Midwest Classic]

Tony,

I agree with you kind of the typical babe magnet bandwagon.

Pesonally I have the non-magnetic cars, Corvair, Gremlin, Panel Truck, Street Rod you know things like that. I enjoy driving them as well. I like to get someplace and I like to get home. I don't want the time in between spent in a hospital or body shop. You know if you want to show off your car slow down so people can see it.

Robbin

[WarrenG]

Originally Posted by Midwest Classic

Tony,

I agree with you kind of the typical babe magnet bandwagon.

Pesonally I have the non-magnetic cars, Corvair, Gremlin, Panel Truck, Street Rod you know things like that. I enjoy driving them as well. I like to get someplace and I like to get home. I don't want the time in between spent in a hospital or body shop. You know if you want to show off your car slow down so people can see it.

Robbin

Actually a 1965 Corvair was my first "sports"car. It was also the first car to prove to me (at age 17) that less power doesn't mean safer. I was to find out first hand that cars have performance limits (in this case cornering) and they don't drive well "upsidedown." All four of us walked away uninjured. Even though the car was a total loss, I considered it a relatively inexpensive lesson since nobody was hurt and one that has stuck with me for almost 40 years.

[Burgs]

Up here in Michigan, there is a campaign that starts in the fall, trying to reduce personal injuries resulting from off road excursions trying to avoid deer,... the deer is fine, and well you can imagine the possibilities.

Do NOT veer for deer!

You will drive right under/thru them. You might get hurt, but at least you wont drive into a tree, or oncoming traffic. There will be no question that you hit a deer, when it comes time to deal with the authorities, and your insurance company.

[olddog]

Originally Posted by Burgs

Do NOT veer for deer!

You will drive right under/thru them. You might get hurt, but at least you wont drive into a tree, or oncoming traffic. There will be no question that you hit a deer, when it comes time to deal with the authorities, and your insurance company.

In a normal car, I would not veer to miss a deer. In a Cobra, I don't know. It looks to me like a deer would be on top of you kicking them hooves and ripping you apart.

[Cobrabill]

Comparing buying an airplane to buying a Cobra?

[WarrenG]

Originally Posted by Cobrabill

Comparing buying an airplane to buying a Cobra?

Not too far fetched when you figure that most cobras will go faster than many light planes!

[fsstnotch]

Originally Posted by Cobrabill

Comparing buying an airplane to buying a Cobra?

Well if that is the only response you have to my MORONIC reply, then I guess I proved my point.

The comparison was to prove my point that anyone can walk into a dealership and buy a cobra. Much like I could go on ebay and buy an airplane. Without any experience, I guarantee with enough open area I can get that plane off the ground. Some people have no business in an airplane.. and some people have no business in a cobra... NOBODY has any business in either without a little experience!

IMO,(ugh oh, I have another one) the dealerships should require some form of drivers safety classes before selling the car. Especially companies like BDR, SPF, etc which sell the cars regularly. I think if they were more responsible dealers... we would have more responsible drivers! You know who you are if you have no experience and no business behind the wheel of a performance car. nuff said!

Josh

[WarrenG]

Originally Posted by fsstnotch

Well if that is the only response you have to my MORONIC reply, then I guess I proved my point.

The comparison was to prove my point that anyone can walk into a dealership and buy a cobra. Much like I could go on ebay and buy an airplane. Without any experience, I guarantee with enough open area I can get that plane off the ground. Some people have no business in an airplane.. and some people have no business in a cobra... NOBODY has any business in either without a little experience!

IMO,(ugh oh, I have another one) the dealerships should require some form of drivers safety classes before selling the car. Especially companies like BDR, SPF, etc which sell the cars regularly. I think if they were more responsible dealers... we would have more responsible drivers! You know who you are if you have no experience and no business behind the wheel of a performance car. nuff said!

Josh

Josh,
You could in fact with enough open ground get that aircraft off the ground. In fact you could probably get away with it at most airports, but without any experience or certificate, you'd also be without insurance which was the point of my last reply. You'd also be without insurance coverage if you had a license but were not type-rated in the aircraft.

Your idea to have the dealerships require evidence of completion of driver safety course would be one solution. Another would be to have the dealer or manufacture include a safety course, classroom and road time, with the purchase of the car. Some aircraft manufactures include pilot training in the price of their more HP and complex aircraft.

Of course that wouldn't solve the problem with the secondary (used) car market. Then it would be up to the insurance company to require HP driving safety classes for the driver/owner to get insurance. States requiring proof of insurance prior to registration of a vehicle might bring a little more of assurance of safety to the driving of HP vehicles.

Unfortunately, we'll probably never be able to stop the many who prefer to circumvent any system that might be developed.

[fsstnotch]

Originally Posted by WarrenG

Josh,
You could in fact with enough open ground get that aircraft off the ground. In fact you could probably get away with it at most airports, but without any experience or certificate, you'd also be without insurance which was the point of my last reply. You'd also be without insurance coverage if you had a license but were not type-rated in the aircraft.

Your idea to have the dealerships require evidence of completion of driver safety course would be one solution. Another would be to have the dealer or manufacture include a safety course, classroom and road time, with the purchase of the car. Some aircraft manufactures include pilot training in the price of their more HP and complex aircraft.

Of course that wouldn't solve the problem with the secondary (used) car market. Then it would be up to the insurance company to require HP driving safety classes for the driver/owner to get insurance. States requiring proof of insurance prior to registration of a vehicle might bring a little more of assurance of safety to the driving of HP vehicles.

Unfortunately, we'll probably never be able to stop the many who prefer to circumvent any system that might be developed.

I completely agree with every bit of this post.

Maybe it needs to be taken to the state DMV level? No registration without proof of proper training? Kind of like when you go for a motorcycle license? That would catch everyone.

Josh

[Slick61]

Originally Posted by fsstnotch

Maybe it needs to be taken to the state DMV level?

you obviously haven't dealt with Kalifornia DMV before...

The last thing we need is more governmental regulation/intervention. However good the intent may be going in... the outcome would most likely be grotesquely mutilated into some horrid piece of legislation that causes more misery than it ever hoped to prevent. Too much influence from special interest groups & the ever-present lunatic fringe. If excessive claims become a major issue, the market/industry will correct that on its own. I say let's help the industry find a solution... not look to the government to do it.

two words... PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY!!!