Pre oilers

[snakebitekit]

Coming from the hot rod arena there has been a great deal of talk about pre oilers.

I am just begining on my Cobra, in fact I don't have it here yet, but from reading many, many conversations I know that a lot of these machines owned do not get driven too frequently, some every weekend some once a month, etc.

Many hotrod rod owners install a pre oiler to prevent the "hot starts". Any thought from the Cobra community?

Dennis

[ERA-576]

I assume you're refering to an Accusump. You can get them in 1, 2 or 3 qt capacity. I've got a 2 qt system. It's cheap protection for the engine, especially if you have a $$$$$ side oiler, or any engine. If the car sits over an extended period, or even if it's fired up on a daily basis, it nice to see 30 lbs oil pressure before you turn the key. It's really nice when making hard turns on a road course, knowing that if you momentarily lose oil pressure due to oil not being picked up from the pan, the Accusump will inject oil as needed to maintain pressure I've never noticed a drop in pressure, but when you're concentrating on high speed turns, you tend not to be watching the oil pressure gauge at the time.

[BigRed427]

I look at it as one more thing that can leak.

[vettestr]

Well I think 576 pretty much summed it up. I have also used my own version of the Accusump to supply a small oil flow to the turbo on shut down. This set up stops coking / burning of the oil inside the turbo. My set up takes 3 1/2 min. to drizzle oil on the hot bearing after shut down.
I also have pre - oilers on my cobras and RV. The RV sits for a couple of months at a time but will hit 35 PSI when I hit the button. This is cheap insurance and a preventative measure that makes a lot of sense to me.

[rdorman]

Accusump... does double duty. The vast majority of bearing wear is at start up so why not.

[double ugly]

The poor man's solution was to install a AN fitting on the oil pump (dry sump set up) and use an old soda type fire extinguisher filled with oil and charged with air. Worked great on the dry sumped cars anyway. It gave you instant oil pressure when the trigger was squeezed. Someone here could tell you where to install a fitting on a wet sump engine I suspect.
John

[Tom Wells]

Heehee.

Another place to leak indeed.

My Accusump leaked from day one. I re-sealed the connections four times before they stopped leaking. Then the pressure switch developed a leak - Canton replaced it under their warranty.

Is it worth it?

You bet!

I now have oil pressure over the full track at Gainesville, and even on turn 16 at Sebring!

Believe it or not, I could make the oil pressure fluctuate frighteningly just by doing the NASCAR tire-warming maneuver; as I jerked the car left-right-left, the oil pressure would head for zero...

Don't try that on a busy street

I use it as the posters above do, too - if the car sits for a while, it's nice to be able to flip the switch and have pre-start oil pressure

I won't leave home without it!

Tom

[Garage10]

So which is the best one to get and where ?
Thanks

[Jim Vander Wal]

I have the 3qt Canton, very pleased. Plumbed with Canton's electric switch system, oil filter and thermostat. All AN-12 lines.

With 60psi shown on the air side of the AccuSump I get 20-25psi at the oil pressure gauge before I start it. The gauge reads at the back of the block, the far end of the oil system.

Jim, SPF 1855

[RICK LAKE]

Accusump and Canton look and work about the same. Either one will do the job. I have an Accusump 3 quart and it saved my motor from a broken rocker shaft when racing. Lifter popped out of bore and was loosing oil pressure in the motor, went from 75 psi to 20 psi with lifter out. Caught motor in time. Repaired the rocker shaft and preoiled car. Fired up motor and have 75 psi again. I use for autocross and road racing at R&G. 2 notes, If you use the electric switch for open and close, add a relay for the power and fuse. The other thing is mount out of HARM'S way. Put a shield around it for protection. It's nice, turn on switch and wait 10 seconds, 30 psi of oil in the motor. Start motor and recharge system. When racing, turn on switch for protection. After race is over rev up motor to refill tank. Ready for next start. If the big 3 used these per lubers, motor would go 500K miles without a bearing failure. I am adding one to my tow truck with a new motor. 3 quart. Some people add a low pressure light on the dash for oil. If car sits a long time, I let the air pressure out of the accusump and recharge it before startup. I think it helps save the seal inside the housing. Rick Lake

[double ugly]

If space is a limitation an external pressure oiler isn't a bad option. All you need is a fitting and an improvised fire extinguisher. Total investment is less than $50.00.

[Garage10]

Thanks for all the replies everyone. Sounds like some good advice.

[olddog]

Been thinking of adding an accusump.

Question: when you change oil, do you open the valve and drain the accusump? If not the old oil stay in it. If you do drain it, how do you refill it?

[MalcolmV8]

I've been reading this thread with great interest. Can someone explain a little more on how the accusump works? I'm curious as to why it has a valve to operate that you need to open and close manually or electrically via a switch?

Also when the car has sat for along time how do you make it pre-oil the system? Do you charge it with your air compressor to force the oil into the motor?

I'm thinking this would also be a great addition to a daily driver which has to deal with 0 degree winter start ups. Getting some oil in there first would be a big help.

I also have an 03 Cobra that sits over the winter and pre-lubing it before summer time startup and even after oil & filter changes would be great.

Thanks for any additional info on how this works.

Malcolm

[vettestr]

Malcolm,
Welcome to the club and your 1st post. There are slight differences and different manufacturers so here is a global answer. The idea of this is to store pressurized oil in a remote container of 1 to 3 qts. The manual or electric valve seals the oil from the engine until you want it.
If you open the valve after you start the engine the oil pump generates a pressure equal to or higher than what is in the tank so there is no flow unless a problem of some type happens. If it does have an issue then the oil dumps in engine to keep it from starving for oil until you can shut it down. You must close valve before shutting down engine for next cycle.
If you use it as a pre oiler then you open valve to get pressure after it was sitting and then start engine up. The use of electric valves and pressure sensors or lights allow you to use this in many different ways or allow it to function when predetermined set points are met. I also think it has just as much of a benefit to your street car or stock grocery getter.
Hope that fills in most of the blanks for ya.

[RICK LAKE]

Superhart Gald there are filters in the system. The info picture shows the oil supply is coming from the drain plug hole. ESP needs to rethink there pictures on installation of the system. As far as Autocross and roadracing in a windsor motor the drains for oil return may be better than a FE motor. I run 10 quarts with a HP-HV oil pump and running a 280 degree off camber turn to the right and without the accusump, the engine was maybe 15-20 psi of pressure. You are pulling over 1 G in the sweeping turn, The oil is all staying in the top of the motor. I added the 3 quart accusump to stop this problem. My pickup is at 3/8" from bottom of a canton oil pan. This turn takes about 5-7 seconds to complete from start to exit. I have a warning light for low pressure, 15 psi. This turn is at Gateway in Ill. It is not a REAL road course like Watkin Glen, but tough on driver and car. Car also pulls a G+ going around turns 3 and 4 to the straight away. Again another oil drop in pressure. This is why there are dry sump systems. I am going to one on the next motor I build. The accusump is a cheap way to protect the motor at this time. Rick L

[SuperHart]

Rick, you make a very good point. It's always a great idea when asking questions to state the main use of your vehicle; drag, road race, rally or street use. Each use poses a different set of considerations and problems. Makes no sense to spend the money to set a car up for road racing if the only intended use is on the street. Conversely, using a car set up for street use on a road course or drag strip could be quite hair raising.

Regarding the stock pickup for the Preluber, yeah, they make an adapter to use in the drain plug. For stock pans what else were they going to use? Most stock oil pans don't have the luxury of a convenient extra fitting on the side of the sump like the Cantons do. No matter, the oil gets filtered before entering the engine so I don't see any problem.

I would imagine that with the Accusump the oiling circuit is pretty much similar to the Preluber. I would guess oil is picked up via the oil pump, pressurized and sent to the Accusump reservoir and held there. When discharged the oil would then pass through the oil filter on its way into the engine. If that is true, then both systems operate in pretty much the same manner, one using stored pressure, the other using a remote electric pump, to pressurize oil through the oil filter and finally the engine. Someone mentioned space-saving. The Preluber actually takes up less physical space because it doesn't actually store 3 quarts of oil within itself.

In my opinion, I would choose a Preluber for a street prepped car and an Accusump for a track prepped car.

[What'saCobra?]

Malc
For racing purposes, you don't really need the valves, if you have a dry sump engine with a large enough sump to contain the extra 2/3 quarts of oil. With a wet sump and a 3-quart Accusump, it is a little more iffy, as you might over-fill the wet sump. Let me explain.

When the oil pressure drops, the oil will flow from the non-check-valve Accusump tank to buffer the oil pressure, flowing up to the depletion of the Accusump volume of 2/3 quarts. After that, well, it depends on your luck and exact cause of the low pressure.

[If, like me many moons ago, your Purolator oil filter can split, remote mounted on a F/A behind the wing/dry sump tank, you will drop ALL the oil around the track until that screechy/crunching sound. That's when we "re-invented" the BIG oil light. To this day there remains a serious oil stain at Pocono!]

Since you already will have a nice supplemental oil system installed and ought to pre-oil a very expensive engine (or even a cheap one), why not put at least a single valve at the Accusump tank entrance, which can be closed just before you pit and retain the volume and pressure before you shut-down the motor? Then, just before start-up, you can open the valve and allow the oil to pre-lube. Start at will. It is a freebie protection plan.

Now, remember that your engine is not yet running, so no scavenge pumps are running and returning the oil from the engine sump to the dry sump tank or pushing it back into the Accusump tank. This means, subject to your particular engine's drain-down channels and features, you are placing the Accusumps 2/3 quarts into the engine oil pan and the oil level is raising somewhat higher than normal, depending on the exact geometry of the sump pan. Start-up will subject the engine internals to considerable splashing at some unknown force levels, caused by the higher engine sump (oil pan) oil level. Therefore, avoid big revs until the oil returns to the Accusump tank after start-up. How long? Perhaps only a few minutes in hot weather and 15 or more in late fall early morning New England.

Some race engines just don't want to start very easily and don't even like to idle at all below 1500 when just a little cool, let alone cold. So, it is a trade-off, but worth the risk IMHO. i have not heard of anyone suffering a failure traced to the excess hydrodynamic forces generated by an excess oil level [except for radial aircraft engines, another whole story for later]; although many of us have over-filled one way or another and pumped/splashed excess oil out of an engine via the dipstick/breather/etc with nothing but embarrassment and a messy engine compartment to show for it.

The valve on the Accusump can be manual, perhaps necessitating the system to be mounted on the floor of the passenger area, or at least an extra line or two installed to bring the valve near your reach.

But, the valve can also be electric operating, with a 12V DC solenoid and a securely covered switch mounted on the panel or nearby. This is handy and allows a very remote placement for the Accusump, which does contain flammable oil. i like the mechanical valve, personally. There are lots of wiring/plumbing variations to suit your own ideas of safety, security and service.

There is little doubt that the system works as designed and works very well. i've never lost an engine that had one, including most of the street cars, which also have long had fire systems. i could not imagine an engine worth over $5K that wouldn't need one, though my street Trailblazer and wifey's Honda CR-V are not currently so equipped.

[brobehr]

great information.

Just another item ,albeit it a critical one, for a pricey motor.

research continues..

thanks!