Magnesium wheels

[Lew Ledyard]

I am looking into have a run of magnesium reproduction Halibrand wheels made. The magnesium available today is more stable and of better quality than what was available 40 years ago, so corrosion won't be the problem that it was with the older wheels. The wheels would be approximately 30% lighter than the currenetly available cast aluminum wheels. The lips would be polished and the centers could either be natural colored, black or gold, not the shiny powder coated gray that is currently available.

They would obviously be more expensive than the cast aluminum wheels that are currently available, but I am not sure how much yet. Because of the cost of casting, I am only looking into reproducing the original 427 Cobra wheels (also known as the Cobra II wheels) in the original sizes (15 X 7 1/2 and 15 X 9 1/2). If there is sufficient interest and volume, other sizes and styles may be considered.

Obviously, price is an issue, but if they were available at $2,500-3,000 a set, would there be interest?

[RodKnock]

Hi Lew,

I would be very interested.

[Power Surge]

Pretty sure this has already been done in the recent past, maybe some of the others who've had Halibrand make a run will chime in.

[ERA Chas]

In 1991 I bought one of the last sets of Cobra II's when Halibrand was owned by Barry Blackwell(?I believe?). They were $2800 the set.
They're still on, see my gallery.
A front with Hoosier TD or Billboard weighs 35 lbs.
A rear is 40 lbs. Hoosier, 42 lbs. G'Year.

[427 S/O]

Would this have anything to do with the cost?.

Five years ago, magnesium's cost was twice that of aluminum (about $4.00 per kg). This was based on 40,000–60,000-ton expensive, continuous, chemical plants that reduced the combined magnesium in magnesite, carnellite, and seawater to MgCl2; smelters (with their expensive electricity) reduced the chloride to metal. Using thousands of small, low-cost, coal-fired kilns, Chinese producers now directly reduce dolomite in low-vacuum steel tubes and condense magnesium "crowns" in 60-kg batches at one-fortieth the cost per ton of capacity compared with Western producers. From nothing six years ago, China now produces one-half the world's supply and has forced magnesium prices down to nearly those of aluminum ($1.60 per kg).

[o'brien]

Have a set on csx4163 hilabrand cobra II, gold with polished lip.
would not hold air had to epoxy paint to seal.
had to make spacer to clear in frount. like the looks but would run trigo for every day use. If you run batch need to adress.

[Lew Ledyard]

O'Brien:

The plan would be to have these wheels made to hold are with tubeless tires and to be machined very carefully so as to ensure uniformity and proper fit. There is no sense going through this exercise and paying a premium over the available cast aluminum wheels to end up with an inferior product.

Sal:

If very high quality magnesium wheels are available, it would be great to know. No sense in going through this if they are already available.

[Cobra Pack]

Based on the description, I am assuming you have been talking to M&A Castings. Fran Kress uses them for a variety of wheels including GT40 MKII, GT40 MkIV and FIA. I believe Kidney Beans are in the works which I am personally interested in for my '63 Comp Car replica. He may have SC wheels available as well.

His contact info is at http://www.cobracountry.com/kress . You will find that his prices are very high -- significantly higher than what you are quoting.

[Lew Ledyard]

Correct, it is M&A Castings. Ted Wayman is the person at M&A with whom I have been speaking. You may be right about the price as I have only gone so far as getting a quote to make the castings/molds for a 15 X 7 1/2" wheel and a 15 X 9 1/2" wheel. I have not closed the loop on nailing down a price to make each wheel after that. I just have not had time to follow up with Ted. Of course price depends on volume. It would not make sense to have only one set made. At 20 sets, it might be reasonable.

Some folks have spared no expense in building their cars. The quality of available wheels (heavy and glossy gray painted centers) seems to be one area that is lacking when trying to build an accurate replica/reproduction or whatever you want to call it. If people are willing to spend $1,000 for a set of tires that wear out, maybe they'd be willing to spend significantly more than $1,500 for a set of more authentic looking and lighter weight wheels. Personally, if they were $3,000 or so for a set of four, I would buy a set. If they were significantly more than that, I would have a tough time justifying the cost.

I have asked Ted to take a look at this thread so that he can better see our interest and concerns.

[Cobra Pack]

I am all for spending money on my car. Unfortunately, the price I was quoted for the Kidney's was $1500/wheel - yes $6000 for a set!

[Sal Gerace]

Include me.

[bbrown]

A couple, few years ago, I chatted with Larry Bowman in the pits at Laguna during the vintage get together. He had Halibrand cast a number of magnesium 427 wheels and he still had sets available. Didn't ask the price as I was not interested in 427 style, but he did run quite a few sets. Might be worth checking with him, if anyone on the forum has contact info.

To 427 SO

Hmmm. Interesting bit on sourcing and cost. That sounds like a good reason the magnesium project I was working on in South Australia in 2002 went nowhere.

To o'brien

Please be careful. I have been playing with magnesium wheels for decades. If one of my wheels didn't hold air, it meant it was cracked. Magnesium castings should not be porous. It casts well and machines well.

Bert Brown

[eschaider]

This is a page on the M&A website that shows a number of wheels they already produce including what they call a GT40 MKII and also a Cobra FIA wheel. They look pretty nice from the pictures. No posted prices though ...

Click here ==> http://www.macastings.com/products.html


Ed

[Cobra Pack]

They do not sell wheels in individual sets. They only do large runs and you pay for the tooling. Their wheels are gorgeous in person.

[KM480]

When you look at the the weight savings and reduced unsprung weight at a price of $3000 or less would actually equate to a pretty good return in performance on the investment. Two ways to make it faster, add horsepower or drop the weight. Not to mention the authenticity it would add. I would be interested in a set. Then sell my Trigos to offset some of the cost.

Can you start of contact list so if the project goes through we can know where to get a set.

[Lew Ledyard]

Yes, if the project goes forward I will circulate a contact list and otherwise make it very easy for folks to get on the order list.

[xracerbob]

[IMG][/IMG]


I used M&A wheels for years. No leaks, and concrete wall resistant!

[What'saCobra?]

In the day...

Very few original mag wheels didn't leak air. Some folks varnished or shellaced the interior to cut it down. If it leaked fast, it was always crack-tested, but rarely failed the test. The alodine (original puke greenish/goldish) usually but slowly abraided or fell off in time in the interior.

They rarely failed, though and did take an impact without separating unless it was really hit hard in one place. We repaired a few, but not many. They could be "swaged" or physically formed back into shape if not too awfully bad. Not often and not much. Wouldn't trust them afterwards, but could finish an event. Remember throwing some away. Don't bother, they're gone.

i saw a few rims detonate when too much air pressure was used to "set the bead" or more precisely, move the tire rims out past the drop-center and up against the wheel rim for a proper seal. Usually happened when the wrench didn't use enough soapy water spray on the rim.

They were not tubeless in our racing use. Later, for street use with Firestone Indy wets (a great street tire, wide, sticky enought for aggressive street use, great tread design, great wet stiction and quite illegal in some areas so they were mounted with the print inside), we did use the rims tubeless, but they had to be watched and topped-up very frequently. Tubeless use was mostly too agro to justify skipping the tube.

The tubes were large (the tires were "large" for the day) and it wasn't uncommon to install the tube with a fold, which always caused a leak and a vibration.

Count me in for a set of modern metal mags, though. Actually need two sets. S/C and FIA. Cash on the barrel-head, no "equity investments", naturally.

[Power Surge]

Here's a question for all.... any particular reason for wanting magnesium? Would people not be happy with correctly shaped and finished aluminum wheels?

[Lew Ledyard]

Sal:

The mags are lighter (a 30% reduction in rotating mass is a lot) and (IMHO) better looking than aluminum.