rumor control--has SAAC lost its use of Shelby name?

[What'saCobra?]

Perhaps i am too stupid to see how Adams' quote applies to this situation. Shelby/FORD have at least two types of private property at risk here.

The papers and the protected logos/trade copy are both private property Adams would strive to protect both from the King and from conversion without compensation.

This does not mean the case is settled, for perhaps SAAC has theory better than the compromised issues currently visible.

SAAC have acknowledged both are Shelby's. In published writings.

i am reading the SAAC reply in plain English and see a foolish insult, which can be of no good benefit to SAAC in either the short or long run.

Which part of the reply would you suggest reading more carefully?

Insulting a FORD partner and then asking for a legal defense fund contribution certainly doesn't seem to be the best way to get people exactly warmed-up to the idea of compromise. With those antics, IMHO, the fund will be indeed necessary.

i had refrained from criticizing the Fund thingy, but it does seem rather Monica to me. Isn't the SAAC a for-profit corporation, mostly owned by the investor/directors? Rather than sending them money to support their use of lawyers to help them retain others property (to whichever items), wouldn't it be more helpful to advise them to restrain themselves, rather than risk any donations on perhaps preventable lawyer's fees?

You did note the part where i suggested that FORD has not competently communicated to their corporate partners, viz our dear Ms Amy? Hung out to dry, was she?

Should we similarly donate to the OJ defense fund, to help him keep the properties he removed, to which he may have had ownership at one time?
-----------
Ps: only my more recent posts contain Adams' quote. The more pacifist/chicken-hearted/BHS's i see claiming we have lost this war, the more convinced i remain that Adams' comment remains appropriate to our times.

[daltondavid]

Originally Posted by What'saCobra?

Perhaps i am too stupid to see how Adams' quote applies to this situation.

Thats because you refuse to stand in my shoes for just a minute and see how they fit.

Which part of the reply would you suggest reading more carefully?

The Long part, just before the Quote that got you so upset you wasted a good $100 Dollars or so of your Legal knowledge in your response.

i had refrained from criticizing the Fund thingy, but it does seem rather Monica to me. Isn't the SAAC a for-profit corporation, mostly owned by the investor/directors? Rather than sending them money to support their use of lawyers to help them retain others property (to whichever items), wouldn't it be more helpful to advise them to restrain themselves, rather than risk any donations on perhaps preventable lawyer's fees?

Apparently SAAC's Advice given to them by legal counsel differs from your thoughts. Thingy?? Monica?? are you a Democrat??

You did note the part where i suggested that FORD has not competently communicated to their corporate partners, viz our dear Ms Amy? Hung out to dry, was she?

AHHH finally something we can agree on.

Ps: only my more recent posts contain Adams' quote. The more pacifist/chicken-hearted/BHS's i see claiming we have lost this war, the more convinced i remain that Adams' comment remains appropriate to our times.

Which War do you speak of??I am a Proud Philadelphian and do not Assume to know everything, butif it is the IRAQ war you make mention of, I still support our Troops and the mission they were sent on!

[Mark IV]

Originally Posted by daltondavid

are you a Democrat??

Trust me, I get emails from V and he is NO Democrat!!!


The SAAC/SHELBY situation is rather like the "Cobra" name battle of years ago, I seem to remember someone being quoted in AUTOMOBILE magazine as saying "this is one of those rare situations where BOTH parties can come out looking like assholes"

Rick

[Don]

As a general reference to any situation, by either or both parties seeking a mutually acceptable resolution to conflict :

From an opinion article, Matters of Moment by Andrew Frankel, in December MotorSports, regarding the McLaren and Ferrari controversy:

"..........rarely has anyone ended up looking good while trying so hard to make someone else look bad. ".

[Jamo]

Certainly a subject worthy of discussion, but we're going to be watching this thread closely.

BTW Whatthehey, I've been a negotiator for thirty years...what the he!! playbook are you reading from?

[What'saCobra?]

Good counsel advises me not to argue with a vastly experienced but occasionally distempered moderator/negotiator with a trigger-finger on the entry switch to this forum. Considering that sage admonition, i have frequently found the "playbook" of common sense worth consulting from time to time during more idle moments in the middle of the night.

Even occasionally, i perform better when i am closely watched.

A negotiator that would approve an out of place, somewhat obtuse but clear and scandalous reference to the "evil" of his antagonist in a public press release would rarely be considered judicious. Gratuitous insults are rarely signs of shrewedness and business acumen, but rather the product of impatience, lack of business judgement and temperamental incompetence. Like swearwords, insults are frequently documentation of fear, a loose-cannon attitude regarding public restraint and a cavalier disregard for a winning strategy.

i have previously commented on the considerable service to Shel's public image and that of his wonderful cars, caused though the good efforts of SAAC, that need not be repeated. It is worth repeating here, however, that he has graced their events in their favor as a highlight many many times for years. They have earned considerable part-fortunes on their automotive business dealings thereby, some more than others.

The parties have argued previously. At length. They have made-up when Shel' has calmed down and they have climbed down at least in part. They will argue again. i think it is one of Shel's hobbies.

But, this time is very different. FORD's many billions of "Mustang" sales weigh somewhat in the balance. Right or wrong, FORD will be right, just like in 1964, 1966, 1967 etc.

While Shel' and FORD have picked fights in the past that were Quixotian in their famously vainglorious posturing (such as the Angliss/FORD/Shelby affair of the "lost 427 chassis from AC"), this contest just doesn't strike me as one of them. Just my opinion, though.

There are far more than a hundred thousand new under-30 Mustang buyers out there that will prove FORD right. Shel' will help them achieve those goals.

Remember to whom FORD brought the newly completed FORD GT for his imprimatur. Remember whose jillions of photographs were published world-wide leaning on the car. How many SAAC members, investors, directors or owners can command 250 USD for his signature on a glove-box lid?

Which way do you think the media will fall on this issue? Do they wish to risk Shel's or FORD's approbation? Who has the clout and why?

Many (me) might think such a public insult was unfair to the old man, however a public figure and deeply argumentative Shel' might be on these and other issues. While Dame Fortune has not always showered her blessings on the man, she certainly does at the moment and he has rarely lacked Fame's heady kiss.

Will the other driver in this audience that has a similar winning record please step forward? Will the other businessman that produces inked copy to the multitudes measured in millions of square feet please weigh in? Will the other spokesman for the sale of perhaps several billions USD of performance automobiles (and perhaps several + more billions USD in the future) please speak up?

Implying Shelby's business affairs are "evil" lessens the SAAC from their "little guy against the billions" position and elevates them to the "little stinkers" level, for no risible benefit. The comment is gratuitous, ineffective, foolish, knavish and potentially costly. Remove it from the public press release and the tone of the release becomes far more a balanced and matter-of-fact presentation of their otherwise at least reasonably debatable position.

SAAC need not similarly play the Quixotian game-card. Do not expect too many owners to take a public distancing from the Shelby who "made" their cars. Us vs Them only works if SAAC have pristine-clean skirts.

The FORD PR and legal machine has only just barely begun.

But, against 30 years of experience, what does a young guy like me know?

Just my opinion.
-------------
i worked and played for many years in offices on Rittenhouse Square in PHL, so i retain a warm spot for both the city and most of its citizens. (Eddie G. Rendell isn't one of them, though.) But, i like PHL mostly for its restaurants opened since the 1976 Bi-Centennial, when i lived on Locust Street, downtown.
-------------
No electrons were harmed or even wasted during this brief presentation. They all remain happily spinning in their newly self-chosen Ort clouds.

[Jamo]

Originally Posted by What'saCobra?

Good counsel advises me not to argue with a vastly experienced but occasionally distempered moderator/negotiator with a trigger-finger on the entry switch to this forum. Considering that sage admonition, i have frequently found the "playbook" of common sense worth consulting from time to time during more idle moments in the middle of the night.

Even occasionally, i perform better when i am closely watched.

A negotiator that would approve an out of place, somewhat obtuse but clear and scandalous reference to the "evil" of his antagonist in a public press release would rarely be considered judicious. Gratuitous insults are rarely signs of shrewedness and business acumen, but rather the product of impatience, lack of business judgement and temperamental incompetence. Like swearwords, insults are frequently documentation of fear, a loose-cannon attitude regarding public restraint and a cavalier disregard for a winning strategy.

i have previously commented on the considerable service to Shel's public image and that of his wonderful cars, caused though the good efforts of SAAC, that need not be repeated. It is worth repeating here, however, that he has graced their events in their favor as a highlight many many times for years. They have earned considerable part-fortunes on their automotive business dealings thereby, some more than others.

The parties have argued previously. At length. They have made-up when Shel' has calmed down and they have climbed down at least in part. They will argue again. i think it is one of Shel's hobbies.

But, this time is very different. FORD's many billions of "Mustang" sales weigh somewhat in the balance. Right or wrong, FORD will be right, just like in 1964, 1966, 1967 etc.

While Shel' and FORD have picked fights in the past that were Quixotian in their famously vainglorious posturing (such as the Angliss/FORD/Shelby affair of the "lost 427 chassis from AC"), this contest just doesn't strike me as one of them. Just my opinion, though.

There are far more than a hundred thousand new under-30 Mustang buyers out there that will prove FORD right. Shel' will help them achieve those goals.

Remember to whom FORD brought the newly completed FORD GT for his imprimatur. Remember whose jillions of photographs were published world-wide leaning on the car. How many SAAC members, investors, directors or owners can command 250 USD for his signature on a glove-box lid?

Which way do you think the media will fall on this issue? Do they wish to risk Shel's or FORD's approbation? Who has the clout and why?

Many (me) might think such a public insult was unfair to the old man, however a public figure and deeply argumentative Shel' might be on these and other issues. While Dame Fortune has not always showered her blessings on the man, she certainly does at the moment and he has rarely lacked Fame's heady kiss.

Will the other driver in this audience that has a similar winning record please step forward? Will the other businessman that produces inked copy to the multitudes measured in millions of square feet please weigh in? Will the other spokesman for the sale of perhaps several billions USD of performance automobiles (and perhaps several + more billions USD in the future) please speak up?

Implying Shelby's business affairs are "evil" lessens the SAAC from their "little guy against the billions" position and elevates them to the "little stinkers" level, for no risible benefit. The comment is gratuitous, ineffective, foolish, knavish and potentially costly. Remove it from the public press release and the tone of the release becomes far more a balanced and matter-of-fact presentation of their otherwise at least reasonably debatable position.

SAAC need not similarly play the Quixotian game-card. Do not expect too many owners to take a public distancing from the Shelby who "made" their cars. Us vs Them only works if SAAC have pristine-clean skirts.

The FORD PR and legal machine has only just barely begun.

But, against 30 years of experience, what does a young guy like me know?

Just my opinion.
-------------
i worked and played for many years in offices on Rittenhouse Square in PHL, so i retain a warm spot for both the city and most of its citizens. (Eddie G. Rendell isn't one of them, though.) But, i like PHL mostly for its restaurants opened since the 1976 Bi-Centennial, when i lived on Locust Street, downtown.
-------------
No electrons were harmed or even wasted during this brief presentation. They all remain happily spinning in their newly self-chosen Ort clouds.

Surprizingly, it would seem, very little.

Why don't you read your own description of what SAAC is faced with...personally, I would want to use a sling rather than the expected sword.

Your commentary is one of a viewer...

[1ntCobra]

Well this thread seems to be suddenly back on track with its subject line.

What'saCobra? mentions money flowing from FORD to SAAC. For what purpose to buy out (and maybe shut down) SAAC for their registry information?

A while ago I thought that Amy said something like SAAC could continue to do their registry. Maybe SAAC could return the original documents, but keep copies for the SAAC's registry purposes? It does not make sense to me that the Shelby people think they should get access to the SAAC collected registry information since 1996 though. What would make the Shelby people think they would have any right to get that information?

I wonder what SAAC's intentions are? From their press release, it sounds like SAAC is concerned that Team Shelby could take over what SAAC has been doing, but could easily be shutdown and then where would we be? I agree. But what does SAAC expect to get from this? The right to keep their registry research (to me, I would assume Shelby has no right to that anyway). Maybe a license renewal?

And asking for all licensed items to be turned over to Shelby? That seems ridiculous. SAAC should be able to sell off all of their tshirts, posters, etc. prior to the license expiration. Or perhaps they could have a big bonfire. Instead of a fire sale, perhaps SAAC can sell their remaining items as limited editions.

I hope that Shelby and SAAC can find a way to get along and let SAAC continue to do their thing.

[imagine2frolic]

Shelby seems to have knocked any, and all replicas. Although he himself produces a replica. Yet he wants to sell not only his signature, but watches to engines to those who are enthusiast, for the Cobra. Knowing full well there are only a 1000+ owners of originals.

With so many enthusiast for what he has produced. I would think it beneficial to embrace all who admire his creation. It matters not that your son has divorced his wife. You can still welcome her with open arms. The benefits of welcoming all enthusiast will only be an asset to CS. I can only see benefits in making the family that much larger.

[xlr8or]

I'm wondering more about what effect if any this has on the current registry being published and it's shipping date.

[1ntCobra]

Originally Posted by xlr8or

I'm wondering more about what effect if any this has on the current registry being published and it's shipping date.

Not to worry. Ned replied earlier in this thread somewhere.

[computerworks]

Originally Posted by xlr8or

I'm wondering more about what effect if any this has on the current registry being published and it's shipping date.

I have heard that it is still pretty much on schedule.

[Excaliber]

Changed my signature line, thinking seriously about replacing any "Cobra" emblems on my car with AC emblems. Thats it for me, Shelby has just screwed over to many people to long to warrant even suggested support from myself. PROUD to have a replica NOT approved by Shelby!

[imagine2frolic]

Excaliber,

ROFL....

[fsstnotch]

Has anyone picked up a copy of Shelby Mag? I picked one up while I was home. Not too impressed! Especially at the $6.99 stand price. But in reading all about "Team Shelby" in the mag.... it doesn't seem very impressive either. My interpretation of the article is that it will be updated no more than SAAC? The only thing "Team Shelby' seems to be accomplishing here is pissing off the replica owners and allowing the newer Shelby cars into the registry. It's just my opinion... but "team Sheby" seems kind of... well... generic! $49.99/yr seems pretty steep, but you do get quite a bit of stuff with the membership. Of which I probably won't be. But we'll see once it gets all up and running in January. From a business standpoint... it's really about time CS did this. From an owner standpoint.... garbage!

[Excaliber]

I left the Corporate world a few years ago, just got really tired of the back stabbing and nasty deeds required to climb the ladder of 'success'. I did well in that environment, without loosing my moral compass, but at times it wasn't easy.

Shelby wants to start a new club, fine, thats business, but don't back stab someone else to make it succeed. The moral compass here is WAY out of synch.

[John McMahon]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

I left the Corporate world a few years ago, just got really tired of the back stabbing and nasty deeds required to climb the ladder of 'success'. I did well in that environment, without loosing my moral compass, but at times it wasn't easy.

Shelby wants to start a new club, fine, thats business, but don't back stab someone else to make it succeed. The moral compass here is WAY out of synch.

Ernie,

Did you 'think' a lawsuit would not be coming forthwith? Why would SAAC be any different?

[Nedsel]

I don't think my posting of a hypothetical question gives anybody's attorneys any grist for the mill of mutual destruction.

[RodKnock]

I apologize if I missed it, but what is the significance of the cut-off date of 1/01/96?

While I'm one of those "west coast bashers" of SAAC, mostly due to their poor performance in recent years, I think they've done a remarkable job of defending the marque against forgeries. I was contemplating joining Team Shelby, but I don't think I will do that now. However, I'll continue to be a member of SAAC. I never liked the litigious nature of Shelby and to attack SAAC is just plain bad corporate behavior that should not be rewarded.

[dynoroom]

Over 20,000 (twentythousand!) views, but it seems no one can see.....