Eco-Friendly Nostalgic Muscle...Is it possible?

[David Kirkham]

With the Hot Rodder spirit that abounds on this site and with our customers, I am pretty sure someone will figure it out--sooner than you might think.

David

[Ronbo]

Well it already has been figured out. We're just slipping under the radar running race cars on the street. Detroit is building higher HP engines now than ever existed in the past. Unless someone knows of a 500HP small block that was in a production car in 1969. Plus at that time a "clean" car meant it left a fairly small cloud behind it.

I'm sure many remember how impossible it seemed we'd ever see a V8 family car again. Wanna meet today's standards? OK buy a complete detroit setup. Wanna meet next year's. Uh OK, buy detroit's setup for that year.

This probably isn't the best crowd to ask for emmissions improvement ideas. Personally I'm trying to figure out were I put those remote controlled exhaust dumps I had.

[Bill E]

Go to You tube and look at ---- Hydrogen Fuel - Engine Fundamentals #1 through 10 this teck in not snake oil it is here now.

[ztarum]

The problem with eco-friendly kit cars is that current emissions rules make it difficult to build one. In many states, cars with engines later than 1996 must pass an OBDII test, which is a computer diagnostic test. The problems is that with kit cars not all of the donor components transfer (fuel tank pressure sensor, wheel speed sensors, etc.). As a result, the OBDII shows errors and the car is failed even though it has cats, etc.

I know this because I really wanted to build a Caterham Super Seven, which uses the Ford Focus SVT engine. In the end, I gave up because it was just too difficult to get a late model engine to pass the OBDII. So I got a Cobra with a 1969 engine, which will have no problem getting through emissions based on the year of the motor. Ironic.

So, Thanks to New Jersey's stupid rules I will be driving around is a gas guzzling hydrocarbon spewing monster instead of 2 liter 4 cyliner that sips gas and burn clean. Oh well.

[khansmith]

Here was an article I found on Hydrogen (actually HHO) with some interesting videos...like the water power torches.
Run Your Car on Water

[mpanten]

Fellas, your cars are eco friendly. If every hot rod in the word was wiped out tommorow it would not change a thing. Drive, enjoy, your cars are not a problem, the only people who say so can't afford one or are burning 5000x as much fuel as you by running around their private jets.

[Ronbo]

Yea it's kinda tough to really be "eco friendly".

The alternative fuel sources have their own problems, Not enough farm land to grow bio fuel crops, propane is a by-product of oil refinement, electric justs shifts the emissions to the power plants. (unless you have hydro electric like 2% of the country)

Gasious fuels like hydrogen and propane are dangerous and more easily ignited so accidents and re-fueling will kill more people than air bags save.

As far a legislature goes, well, I've seen mandetory seat belt laws added and the mandatory motorcycle helmet law repealed here. Still waiting on the killer bees, the utter collapse of mankind from Y2K and the ozone hole, half the country infected with AIDS by 2000, Altzhimer's from my aluminum pans... However any law can be bent with the proper funding.

[khansmith]

Originally Posted by mpanten

Fellas, your cars are eco friendly. If every hot rod in the word was wiped out tommorow it would not change a thing. Drive, enjoy, your cars are not a problem, the only people who say so can't afford one or are burning 5000x as much fuel as you by running around their private jets.

That's not the point of the thread. I too agree that all our cars together don't have impact compared to other modes of transportation. The point of the thread is that our hobby is in jeapardy because "one size fits all" legislation is being passed that will make it impossible to build cars like ours with classic powerplants. Right now I am planning a possible move to Atlanta and it will be very difficult or damn near impossible to get my car to pass let alone titled. The article shows California getting a lot of leadership/power in these decisions.

I would love to compute the carbon footprint of all kitcars/hot rods as compared to one 747 passenger jet with a 1:1 allotment per passenger. I think I need to start a movement!!

[SPF2245]

Well, based off the point of this thread. I'd use a modern Chevy LS7 powerplant, which is to say, it currently meets all the emissions standards and I'd believe in a cobra with the correct gearing would/could get close to 30+MPG on the highway (55MPH) with the correct programming. I believe we'll soon see the "power" button become a standard on performance based vehicles along with a "economy" button under which changes tuning, numbers of cyl.'s used and such to make the feds and states happy. The current 5.7 hemi uses the cyl. deactivation, that mixed with some leaning of the running cyl. even more could improve milage.
And all the while still making all the good noises...the new LS7 sounds GREAT at WOT.

-Dan

[Aussie Mike]

Originally Posted by Ronbo

Gasious fuels like hydrogen and propane are dangerous and more easily ignited so accidents and re-fueling will kill more people than air bags save.

Propane is actually safer than petrol. It's flash point is higher and the fuel air mixture range where it will ignite is narrower than petrol.

Every taxi in Australia runs on LPG (Propane) and a large percentage of private vehicles have made the switch. It's readily available with most gas stations having at least one pump and it's less than half the price of petrol.

Both GM and Ford offer straight LPG equipped cars from the factory.

I believe the majority of our LPG is sourced from natural gas fields rather than oil.

Cheers

[khansmith]

LPG is very interesting. Since you can run a dual set up (gas and LP), one could have a primary LPG tank (also seems that it could be same size as gas tank) and a spare/emergency gas tank "just in case" you can't find LPG...help you limp to your destination.

On the other point, if you had EFI on an FE engine today, could you set it up to run on less cylinders when cruising?

[Ronbo]

Natural gas is not propane.

Natural gas is formed in pockets in the earth's crust and may or may not include crude oil in the pocket although cude oil pockets almost always have natural gas in them.

Propane is in a few grades here in the US ranging from what we called "sewer gas" (low grade) to blends like MAPP (propane and acytaline). When we bought propane at the welding shop it's price follows crude oil because it's made from crude oil. You have to jet stoves, torches, engines, water heaters to one gas or the other. they don't burn the same.

Got to home depot up north everythings jetted to natural gas, down south propane. (I used to repair gas welding equipment in my teens) You'll see about 20% more power from natural gas than propane it's a much hotter burn.