Continuation CSX a "Kit car"?

[Excaliber]

Well I reluctantly agree with that Bill, as long as the statement doesn't apply to the black ones on the east coast...

[mrmustang]

Of course to follow this up a little further I'll take a section of the actual CSX purchase agreement and post it here as it needs no further clarification as to what SAI itself views these cars as:

"It is expressly understood and agreed that it shall be Purchaser’s or Purchaser’s retail customer’s responsibility to assemble the parts and components of The Shelby Cobra Series Component Vehicle and if any engine and drive-train is installed therein at Purchaser’s or Purchaser’s retail customer’s option, it is not at the request or under the direction of Shelby Automobiles. It is also understood and agreed that it shall be Purchaser or Purchaser’s retail customer’s sole responsibility to direct any independent assembler engaged by Purchaser or Purchaser’s retail customer to complete the final assembly of The Shelby Series Cobra Component Vehicle. It is understood and agreed that Shelby Automobiles is not responsible for any errors, omissions or construction defects of or by the Purchaser, Purchaser’s retail customer or independent assembler."


Bill S.

[Power Surge]

Originally Posted by mrmustang

Of course to follow this up a little further I'll take a section of the actual CSX purchase agreement and post it here as it needs no further clarification as to what SAI itself views these cars as:

"It is expressly understood and agreed that it shall be Purchaser’s or Purchaser’s retail customer’s responsibility to assemble the parts and components of The Shelby Cobra Series Component Vehicle and if any engine and drive-train is installed therein at Purchaser’s or Purchaser’s retail customer’s option, it is not at the request or under the direction of Shelby Automobiles. It is also understood and agreed that it shall be Purchaser or Purchaser’s retail customer’s sole responsibility to direct any independent assembler engaged by Purchaser or Purchaser’s retail customer to complete the final assembly of The Shelby Series Cobra Component Vehicle. It is understood and agreed that Shelby Automobiles is not responsible for any errors, omissions or construction defects of or by the Purchaser, Purchaser’s retail customer or independent assembler."


Bill S.

I don't think anyone ever disputed that it's a component vehicle (plus we've already covered this). Obviously, for Shelby to sell a Cobra that's the same design as the original cars, it would never meet modern standards as a finished vehicle.

Let us not forget, that original comp and S/Cs were component vehicles too. They rollers were made by AC, and shipped to Shelby, minus drivetrain (and paint). Shelby added the drivetrains, and then sold them as complete cars. But that was the 60s, and the Cobra could be sold back then as a completed car in it's design. Today, to sell the same car, it has to be sold to the public as a component car.

[mrmustang]

Originally Posted by Power Surge

Today, to sell the same car, it has to be sold to the public as a component car.

Sal,

My point exactly, as what is another name for a "component car" , we all know it's a kit car, whether it is sold as a roller or not. So why is it that most new CSX owners (no, not you) cannot except that as a fact.



Bill S.

[Power Surge]

Originally Posted by mrmustang

Sal,

My point exactly, as what is another name for a "component car" , we all know it's a kit car, whether it is sold as a roller or not. So why is it that most new CSX owners (no, not you) cannot except that as a fact.



Bill S.

Bill, I think the ongoing debate stems from people's different definitions of the terms.

To some people, a kit car is anything that wasn't built in the 60s. To others, a kit car is just that... as car sold as a kit (unassembled).

To some people, a replica is anything that wasn't built in the 60s. To some CSX guys, a replica is any Cobra NOT sold by Shelby.

To some people, a real Cobra is one that was built in the 60s. To others, a real Cobra is any one sold by Shelby.

Unfortunately, until the entire Cobra world is on the same page as to what the definitions mean, this debate will never end.

[fostereast]

Posted by Power Surge: "Let us not forget, that original comp and S/Cs were component vehicles too. They rollers were made by AC, and shipped to Shelby, minus drivetrain (and paint). Shelby added the drivetrains, and then sold them as complete cars. But that was the 60s, and the Cobra could be sold back then as a completed car in it's design. Today, to sell the same car, it has to be sold to the public as a component car.[/quote]



The original Cobras were "Cars" they were not "Component Cars" By the definition you are implying you would have to call many modern day cars "component cars"

[Power Surge]

Posted by Power Surge: "Let us not forget, that original comp and S/Cs were component vehicles too. They rollers were made by AC, and shipped to Shelby, minus drivetrain (and paint). Shelby added the drivetrains, and then sold them as complete cars. But that was the 60s, and the Cobra could be sold back then as a completed car in it's design. Today, to sell the same car, it has to be sold to the public as a component car.

Originally Posted by fostereast

The original Cobras were "Cars" they were not "Component Cars" By the definition you are implying you would have to call many modern day cars "component cars"

Try reading it again.

[fostereast]

Originally Posted by Power Surge

Try reading it again.

What am I missing?

[LMH]

Bill
Do you have that "Purchase Agreement" because you bought one?
Larry

[mrmustang]

Originally Posted by LMH

Bill
Do you have that "Purchase Agreement" because you bought one?
Larry

Nope, found it all online off of their own servers..........


Bill S.

[Excaliber]

I see your point Bill, AC was a manufacturer of cars, had been for many years/decades. How they got the job done might be compared to Honda's being built in Tennesse, or where ever, with parts from Japan and all over the world. Point is, when the car is done, it's a wholly manufactured car called a Honda legal in all aspects of the market where it is sold.

As opposed to the continuation Shelby's, which are in every sense of the word a component vehicle, assembled by the buyer or his agent. It is significant that the buyer assumes the liability for licensing and registration of said vehicle at his own risk because the car was not made by a recognized vehicle 'manufacturer', like Honda, or AC/Shelby was back in the day.

A corporation owns the 'Shelby' BRAND NAME and will continue to make "Shelby's" after Carroll has gone horizontal. Maybe they will continue to be a great product in the future, maybe... Just like Saleen's continue to modify Mustangs, but Mr. Saleen himself is no longer with the company. Saleen's are trading on the BRAND NAME, maybe there a great company still, maybe. Schwinn builds mopeds in China. The Chinese are trading on the BRAND NAME, those mopeds sell for considerably more money than the SAME PRODUCT with a different name. And I mean IDENTICAL product(s) in every sense of the word and in many cases superior to a Schwinn in fit, finish, engine assembly and overall quality. But that BRAND NAME sell's.

Shelby continuation Cobras, for the most part, are a quality product and will likely continue to be for many many years to come. Maybe... Kirkhams are also a quality product, with a respected brand name, but it doesn't carry the weight of a Shelby brand name. That could change, in time, SAI is doing a remarkable job of tarnishing the brand name, will the product follow suit? Suit, hmmm, now there's an interesting term...

[Midwest Classic]

Just for what it is worth we will insure these as an "original" vehicle as long as they have a 17 digit VIN on them, which in most cases they do. Does this mean they are really original, not really, but from an insurance standpoint you do get a better rate.

Robbin
Midwest Classic Insurance
www.cobrareplicainsurance.com
1-888-271-4000

[Naumoff]

Originally Posted by Midwest Classic

Just for what it is worth when we will insure these as an "original" vehicle as long as they have a 17 digit VIN on them, which in most cases they do. Does this mean they are really original, not really, but from an insurance standpoint you do get a better rate.

Robbin
Midwest Classic Insurance
www.cobrareplicainsurance.com
1-888-271-4000

My 77 Jeep CJ7 had 9 digit VIN # and it was an original AMC Jeep.

My insurance company at the time wanted more #. None to give.
The excepted the VIN # when I went to the Jeep and read it of the plate and title that I had in my hands.
I guess you just have to add a bunch of zero in fromnt of the #.

[Midwest Classic]

Originally Posted by Naumoff

My 77 Jeep CJ7 had 9 digit VIN # and it was an original AMC Jeep.

My insurance company at the time wanted more #. None to give.
The excepted the VIN # when I went to the Jeep and read it of the plate and title that I had in my hands.
I guess you just have to add a bunch of zero in fromnt of the #.

Vehicle ID numbers today have 17 digits. The number changed to 17 I believe in 1980 prior to that there were 13 for quite a few years prior, I think the number 13 started in early 60's but may not have been used by everyone. Prior to that they were low and did not have a lot of information tied to them as they do today.

Robbin
Midwest Classic Insurance
www.cobrareplicainsurance.com
1-888-271-4000

[A-Snake]

Originally Posted by Midwest Classic

Just for what it is worth when we will insure these as an "original" vehicle as long as they have a 17 digit VIN on them, which in most cases they do. Does this mean they are really original, not really, but from an insurance standpoint you do get a better rate.

Robbin
Midwest Classic Insurance
www.cobrareplicainsurance.com
1-888-271-4000

Robbin,
Can you clarify some of your post?
"When we will insure these..." What cars are you referencing? Any new component car?
"Insure these as an original vehicle as long as they have a 17 digit VIN on them..." Originals do not have 17 digits nor do new component CSX cars?

You get a better rate because you used 'incorrect' terminology on the policy?

[Midwest Classic]

Originally Posted by A-Snake

Robbin,
Can you clarify some of your post?
"When we will insure these..." What cars are you referencing? Any new component car?
"Insure these as an original vehicle as long as they have a 17 digit VIN on them..." Originals do not have 17 digits nor do new component CSX cars?

You get a better rate because you used 'incorrect' terminology on the policy?

I corrected the post to say "we will insure". Production cars produced after 1981 (I think that is the correct year) have 17 digits in the VIN. If the car has 17 digits then we consider it original. We insure original cars as original no matter what year they are from. Early production vehicles will not have 17 digits and we know that. Kits or Replicas also will not have 17 digits so they are not rated as originals.

There is no "incorrect" terminology used to lower a rate.

Robbin
Midwest Classic Insurance
www.cobrareplicainsurance.com
1-888-271-4000

[Power Surge]

I think what Robbin means by "original" car, is that they will insure the car as if it was a production car, and not a home built deal. I don't think he means original as in they'll insure it as a 60s Cobra .

[A-Snake]

Originally Posted by Power Surge

I think what Robbin means by "original" car, is that they will insure the car as if it was a production car, and not a home built deal. I don't think he means original as in they'll insure it as a 60s Cobra .

That doesn't appear to be what he is saying Sal. A "production" car today is defined as having a 17 digit VIN. Component cars do not have 17 digits.

"Kits or Replicas also will not have 17 digits so they are not rated as originals."

[Naumoff]

Originally Posted by Midwest Classic

I corrected the post to say "we will insure". Production cars produced after 1981 (I think that is the correct year) have 17 digits in the VIN. If the car has 17 digits then we consider it original. We insure original cars as original no matter what year they are from. Early production vehicles will not have 17 digits and we know that. Kits or Replicas also will not have 17 digits so they are not rated as originals.

There is no "incorrect" terminology used to lower a rate.

Robbin
Midwest Classic Insurance
www.cobrareplicainsurance.com
1-888-271-4000

This doesn't make sense. What does 17 digits have to do with anything.

If you have a Focus the insurance company can find all the info on the car.
If you have a component car with 17 digits in the VIN # the insurance can find no info on the car.
so you are telling us that they only look at the the 17 digits and don't check the VIN# for ABS, Side inpact bars and air bags for a better rate?

[Midwest Classic]

Tony,

I was told by the underwriter they would insure a car that has 17 digits as a production vehicle and it would get a better rate than the normal replica/kit does. We do not look at air bags and such when rating collectible vehicles, although that trend is also changing. These are collectible vehicles not daily drivers. Daily drivers rates are triggered a lot more by the vehicle and componets it is equipped with.

Robbin