Continuation CSX a "Kit car"?

[Naumoff]

Willie Wonka:The strawberries taste like strawberries. The snozzberries taste like snozzberries.

Veruca Salt: Snozzberries? Who ever heard of a snozzberry?

Willie Wonka: *We* are the music makers... and *we* are the dreamers of dreams.

[WarrenG]

Originally Posted by ENTDOC

it was a tongue in cheek comment

But all too true!

[WarrenG]

Finally got to the end of this. Boy am I glad that I got a real original ERA 289 Roadster! Who cares what anybodyelse thinks, just drive the darned thing!

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

Titling any MODERN Cobra (built after 1967 by other than AC/Shelby) as purely a 1965 is fraught with all kinds of potential problems and it has nothing to do with the car being a 'kit' or a 'continution' or whatever you want to call it.

That's not true. It depends upon your state laws.

Originally Posted by fostereast

One way to look at it is that in the sixties, Shelby sold CARS, now he sells PARTS. When you put them together, is it a Shelby? In my opinion, it's a home-made car using parts Shelby sold you, that affords you the opportunity to list it in various Shelby registries. Otherwise as far as I know, it's illegal to title/register it and drive it on any street in the USA.

I know it is actually legal to own, register, and drive on the highways, I believe in every state.

I would say to you, don't buy one. You won;t be happy.

Originally Posted by fostereast

Shelby makes parts. He might fasten some parts together, but he does not make cars in a way that they are legally cars by today's standards.

I don't think Shelby is listed as a "Manufacturer" like Saleen so Shelby does not make cars. (I could be wrong about this and maybe Shelby is listed as a "Manufacturer")

As far as I know to title/register and inspect a component car in the USA it is not supposed to be manufactured by anyone other than yourself unless you bought it off a fellow that built it for himself and then sold it.

Keep in mind this is all my opinion and I am not trying to write this in an explosive fashion.

You are wrong about all of this. Shelby is a manufacturer. Ever heard of Series 1 cars? Sheby is like Saleen in a way. Both modify mustangs, and each has their own car, Series 1 vs S7. Shelby however also sells 1965 type Cobra's as well.

Originally Posted by mrmustang

--However, when they are bought from SAI, the MSO's that I have seen list them as 1965's, when in fact they were produced just last year. Again the Shelby machine is doing a wonderful job of marketing them as "1965's", but the reality of it all is that they are not. Shelby does make a wonderful recreation of the original, there is no doubt about it, but to call them anything but "recreations" is a slap in the face to all of those who own original "built in the 60's" Cobras..

It's not a marketing ploy. It's the market that is demanding original spec cobra's, CSX4000 vs Kirkhams. So the Kirkhams are a slap in the face as well? I don;t think it's a slap in the face for anybody. If anybody feels slighted, it's their own problem.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by ENTDOC

I I have a continuation GT40 GT2103 and it is legally a real GT40 licensed by Safir to support that. It does draw plenty of ' it is not an original GT40 so it is no more real than my XYZ GT40 ( I have an XYZ GT40 also) and that is ok that it tears them up so badly that they must constantly worry about it, I kind of like it that way. I figure I am damn lucky to have the ability to have one and if others do not like the nomenclature, screw em.

Close analogy to CSX4000 cars, and it would be the same if Ford were the ones selling the "new" component GT40's, not Superformance. Shelby is still selling cobra's.

[ENTDOC]

Uh, Shelby cars built by Hi tech (Superformance), Some CAV, some Kirkham. Some place in Mexico, so the analagy is pretty accurate. Shelby owns the license as does Safir, Ford does not own the license. So are the new Shelby GT40's built by Superformance not real Shelbys?

[fostereast]

Anthony,

I don't think I'm wrong on either statement; Spend ten minutes on the web trying to figure out if you can call Shelby a US Auto "manufacturer" and you'll see you can't. Saleen is though.

Read the laws for component or "kit" cars for almost any state and instead of looking for the loopholes, look at what they are trying to address and you'll see that your not supposed to have someone like Shelby or anyone else build these cars, sell them to you as a car and have you title, register and inspect it.

Another thought popped into my head. Did Shelby keep the same corporation alive all those years he was MIA in Africa, if not then the new "cobra" rollers are not real in the sense the original corporation made them?

Originally Posted by Anthony

That's not true. It depends upon your state laws.



I know it is actually legal to own, register, and drive on the highways, I believe in every state.

I would say to you, don't buy one. You won;t be happy.



You are wrong about all of this. Shelby is a manufacturer. Ever heard of Series 1 cars? Sheby is like Saleen in a way. Both modify mustangs, and each has their own car, Series 1 vs S7. Shelby however also sells 1965 type Cobra's as well.



It's not a marketing ploy. It's the market that is demanding original spec cobra's, CSX4000 vs Kirkhams. So the Kirkhams are a slap in the face as well? I don;t think it's a slap in the face for anybody. If anybody feels slighted, it's their own problem.

[ZOERA-SC7XX]

Another question I've not seen answered here...is the CSX 4XXX serial number on the MSO retained by the state on the new title, or did the state issue its own new serial number and ID tag? I ask this because the CT DMV will issue my (ERA 718) car a new Serial number not identifying it as ERA XXX

[mrmustang]

It's a floor wax (insert real Cobra here)
It's a desert topping (it's an original Shelby product)

It's both (real but not "an" original Cobra), new Shimmer is a floor wax and a dessert topping.

[CSX 4039]

Originally Posted by ENTDOC

Uh, Shelby cars built by Hi tech (Superformance), Some CAV, some Kirkham. Some place in Mexico, so the analagy is pretty accurate. Shelby owns the license as does Safir, Ford does not own the license. So are the new Shelby GT40's built by Superformance not real Shelbys?

Does anyone know of a CSX 4000, 1000, or 7000 series which was finished by an inexperienced purchaser at home in his garage (especially if he wasn't in the auto business himself during the day)? I haven't heard of one, they were all finished by experienced first rate folks, of the same quality as SAI in Venice in the 60's, (unlike some of the other marques with first-time knuckle busters). 1965- body by AC in England, engine by Ford, wheels by Halibrand, radiator by Serk, brakes by Girling, etc., lovingly put together by experts. No meaningful difference than today, other than the location of the expertise. Sourced parts, finished out by experts. Again, the real reason was emission laws, not Shelby's habit of deception, unless you're calling all the other brands of cars which don't have airbags and catalytic convertors deceptive frauds also. Uncle Sam started this, CS just made it worse.
Buyers/owners are generally honest with enquiries. Even when I was in my very enthusiastic phase of ownership, I never told anyone it was an original Shelby. I say it is an authentic Shelby, and, (especially since mine is bare metal, I suppose), that is more then enough info. Only a rare bird knows enough about the marque to ask much beyond that.
Ironically, I talked to the owner of an original Shelby, and he had the same problem, because when he told people it WAS an original Cobra, nobody believed him! LOL!

[Excaliber]

Many state's will issue THEIR own version of a vin which will supercede whatever vin the car originally had.

I still maintain that registering your replica as a 1965 model AND year is fraught with potential problems, as it pertains to resale. Because, as was mentioned, the laws vary from state to state and transfering such a title, depending on the state, could be a nightmare. The deal could come back to haunt you. Best approach, tell it like is, a 1965 MODEL without implying that is also the year of build.

CSX4039, uh, yeah I know of a couple of cars that would fall under your interpretation. One specifically built in a home garage by parts gathered from here and there by a non professional. Another built in a professional garage but along the same lines (parts gathered here and there). Both 'blessed' by Shelby. With that blessing it becomes the 'real deal', a genuine Shelby continuation creation. It's all about acquiring the coveted CSX vin number, once you got that, your in!

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by CSX 4039

Does anyone know of a CSX 4000, 1000, or 7000 series which was finished by an inexperienced purchaser at home in his garage (especially if he wasn't in the auto business himself during the day)?

Yes, as I said earlier on this thread, CSX4250 was finished by the purchaser, not Shelby. I have the pictures of the purchaser and I think a friend finishing it at home and also in some garage in the mountains. It was a beautiful car, just not finished close to original spec. Also, I have seen a CSX body for sale before too, but at the moment, I can't remember if it was eBay or Craigslist, but it was here locally in the SF Bay Area.

[ZOERA-SC7XX]

But what about the original Shelby Cobras. Do they get to keep their real CSX Serial numbers on the title, even if sold to a new owner and/or registered in a another state?

[vettestr]

Any car owner on this site is close enough to the facts to understand the statements ("it's a 1965 Shelby Cobra") or (" it's a Series x,x,or X Shelby Cobra") or ("it's a Continuation Shelby Cobra") or it's a cobra and put that info anywhere in their own minds eye.

The Real confusion I think is the guy or gal at a filling station looking at any of the above cars and asking the owner if it's a real Cobra. I do not think most of these folks can get it straight in their own mind what the differences are without help from that owner.
They are all going to be in aw of this sexy car and tell all of their friends that they saw a 65 Shelby Cobra. They will be blown away by this cool car, regardless of the true/real or properly described car that they saw.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by fostereast

Anthony,

I don't think I'm wrong on either statement; Spend ten minutes on the web trying to figure out if you can call Shelby a US Auto "manufacturer" and you'll see you can't. Saleen is though.

Read the laws for component or "kit" cars for almost any state and instead of looking for the loopholes, look at what they are trying to address and you'll see that your not supposed to have someone like Shelby or anyone else build these cars, sell them to you as a car and have you title, register and inspect it.

Another thought popped into my head. Did Shelby keep the same corporation alive all those years he was MIA in Africa, if not then the new "cobra" rollers are not real in the sense the original corporation made them?

I think you're wrong. I've probably spent at least 10X the amount of time searching the web about shelby cars, and possibly presently more than you ever will. I don't care abut the registration laws of states that don;t have interest to me, but I know states differ immensely. If you would have spent any time on the web, you would have seen that Shelby is/was an auto manufacturer, although I donlt know if the new GT500's, Shelby GT's, etc have Shelby listed as the manufacturer, nor do I care. I know that the series 1 cars did.

What it boils down to is what you believe in. You can believe whatver you want to believe. If you believe the world is flat, not round, thats fine with me. I'm not there to change your mind, just to put another contrasting opinion on the web, so people who haven't made up their mind yet can make their own decision. You'll never change my opinion, and I;ll know I'll never change yours.

buy a factory 5.

P.S. I own a classic mustang as well. Infact, the tranny in my cobra is out of a '67 390 stang (short nose-small spline-wide ratio) if you know what that means.

[Excaliber]

ZOERA, man I would be aghast if some state, ANY state would change an original Vin for an original car from 1965. The very fact that my car is in fact a 'replica' gives the state license to issue an appropriate vin. In Hawaii, that would also apply to a modern CSX car (sad though that be).

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by ENTDOC

Uh, Shelby cars built by Hi tech (Superformance), Some CAV, some Kirkham. Some place in Mexico, so the analagy is pretty accurate. Shelby owns the license as does Safir, Ford does not own the license. So are the new Shelby GT40's built by Superformance not real Shelbys?

The difference is that Shelby still ultimately sells the cars, no matter who (Shelby, Kirkham, Superformance) supplies them (partial or entire rolling chassis). Ford sold the original GT40's, which I think were made in England, although I'm definitely no expert on GT40's. Ford no longer sells them.

I think the analogy is close, but not exact. We're splitting hairs here, maybe not really any significant difference.

Don't get me wrong, I think the Superformance GT40 is a grreat car, definitely the one I would buy. But, they didn;t make the original series of cars, although their cars I believe to be original spec built, as well under official license. Great car.

If Kirkham built the complete rolling chassis and sold them under license from Shelby with CSX numbers (instead of only supplying a bare body/chassis that is sold to Shelby for completion), then then I believe the analogy would be identical.

[ZOERA-SC7XX]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

ZOERA, man I would be aghast if some state, ANY state would change an original Vin for an original car from 1965. The very fact that my car is in fact a 'replica' gives the state license to issue an appropriate vin. In Hawaii, that would also apply to a modern CSX car (sad though that be).

Just my point. Replicas are assigned DMV issued VIN #'s. Originals are allowed to keep the original VIN #'s. Doesn't this fact identify a replica, regardless of who produced it?

[Power Surge]

Originally Posted by ZOERA-SC7XX

Just my point. Replicas are assigned DMV issued VIN #'s. Originals are allowed to keep the original VIN #'s. Doesn't this fact identify a replica, regardless of who produced it?

The difference there, is that one is a vehicle, and one is not.

An original Cobra was a complete car, sold as a complete car, with a manufacturer's VIN. You take it to the DMV and register it.

A replica or CSX4000 car is a component vehicle, NOT sold by the manufacturer as a complete car, and therefore must be validated as a complete car by the DMV. They can elect to use the manufacturer's VIN, or issue their own. However, this is not just subject to home built cars, they would issue their own VIN on something like a rebuilt car as well.

[Excaliber]

I suspect Shelby USED TO BE a 'manufacturer', as in the Series 1, I doubt he is currently a 'manufacturer'.

By the way, at least this thread/discussion show's significant progress on being able to discuss these subject matters with some semblance of order, politeness and logic. I don't see the lynch mob forming just yet...