Continuation CSX a "Kit car"?

[Power Surge]

Originally Posted by ZOERA-SC7XX

Just my point. Replicas are assigned DMV issued VIN #'s. Originals are allowed to keep the original VIN #'s. Doesn't this fact identify a replica, regardless of who produced it?

The difference there, is that one is a vehicle, and one is not.

An original Cobra was a complete car, sold as a complete car, with a manufacturer's VIN. You take it to the DMV and register it.

A replica or CSX4000 car is a component vehicle, NOT sold by the manufacturer as a complete car, and therefore must be validated as a complete car by the DMV. They can elect to use the manufacturer's VIN, or issue their own. However, this is not just subject to home built cars, they would issue their own VIN on something like a rebuilt car as well.

[Excaliber]

I suspect Shelby USED TO BE a 'manufacturer', as in the Series 1, I doubt he is currently a 'manufacturer'.

By the way, at least this thread/discussion show's significant progress on being able to discuss these subject matters with some semblance of order, politeness and logic. I don't see the lynch mob forming just yet...

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

By the way, at least this thread/discussion show's significant progress on being able to discuss these subject matters with some semblance of order, politeness and logic. I don't see the lynch mob forming just yet...

That's because those of us on the East Coast get tired about now....

[ZOERA-SC7XX]

Originally Posted by patrickt

That's because those of us on the East Coast get tired about now....

Amen! Time for the Aussies to chime in.

[Excaliber]

Shelby essentially sell's a 'turn key' car with engine and trans etc. because it goes through two separte 'business', which is the key to making the legal process work. Build the car at business A and then have an affiliated business (B) drop in the engine and trans.

I wonder how Foose and some other custom hot rod builders work within the legal framework to sell a 'turn key'? Very tricky that part of the business...

[Nedsel]

I have no sympathy for any of you. All of you say it's tough explaining to someone what your (fill in the blank) is. Too bad. Wait until you bring a '66 AC to an event and people start asking questions. "Is this a Cobra?" "No. It's an AC 289 Sports." "Oh, so it's a replica." "No, it's a '66 AC." "But who built it?" "AC." "Who is AC? Do they build kits?" "Not that I know of." Soon, it's a lot like "Who's on first?" and it usually ends with a lot of head-shaking, eye-rolling, and shoulder-shrugging. Which may not be all that unusual for many of you. Life is tough; suck it up.

[Power Surge]

Originally Posted by Nedsel

I have no sympathy for any of you. All of you say it's tough explaining to someone what your (fill in the blank) is. Too bad. Wait until you bring a '66 AC to an event and people start asking questions. "Is this a Cobra?" "No. It's an AC 289 Sports." "Oh, so it's a replica." "No, it's a '66 AC." "But who built it?" "AC." "Who is AC? Do they build kits?" "Not that I know of." Soon, it's a lot like "Who's on first?" and it usually ends with a lot of head-shaking, eye-rolling, and shoulder-shrugging. Which may not be all that unusual for many of you. Life is tough; suck it up.

I always thought that was a pretty cut and dry one Ned. Just tell them Shelby sold them in the US and AC sold them in the UK. That's what I usually tell people on that subject, and it seems to work fine.

Now try telling someone your Cobra is a real Shelby, made by Shelby, but it's not an original 60s car. THAT'S when you get the funny faces.

[ENTDOC]

I sold mine to avoid the confusion

[sportyworty]

Originally Posted by ENTDOC

I sold mine to avoid the confusion

LOL, me too!

[Excaliber]

Well that was interesting, walking in Ned's shoes for a moment. I guess there is just no way around the 'story' that MUST accompany these cars in some way.

[DTurnbull]

[Nedsel]

Excaliber - um, about those shoes: what did you step in? Gee whiz.

And if Kit Car magazine had a picture of Shelby's "NEW COBRA" on its cover, does that automatically make it a kit car?

[jay bentley]

Ned, I bet your tongue just sliced through your cheek as if it was a wet newspaper!

[mrmustang]

Originally Posted by Nedsel

And if Kit Car magazine had a picture of Shelby's "NEW COBRA" on its cover, does that automatically make it a kit car?

I don't know, what is your opinion on it?


Bill S.

[Nedsel]

Bill - I don't know either. But the thought occurred to me, why not ask the question and give folks a chance to discuss something that has never been covered here previously?

[Chaplain]

I'm going to go the whole route. I don't have a glove box so I'll have a painter airbrush a simulated one on so I can have someone else do a simulation of Carroll Shelby's signature on it.

[Excaliber]

Ned, I just hadn't considered the possibility of having to explain an original. All though, being an AC example, yeah that would complicate matters. Your post was an eye opener for me.

I look forward to replacing my current Cobra emblems with AC emblems, that should really make for an interesting 'story line'.

[terry251]

Am I wrong in recalling that Shelby announced he "found" a bunch of unused, original frames (with VINS??), so he decided to launch the "continuation" series? Or was that just some of the marketing creativity at the time? Or maybe my failing memory?

Terry

[Nedsel]

No, Terry, you are right. Problem was, it was found that those "leftover chassis" had been made last week, so they weren't exactly as Old Shel was describing them. That led to some interesting repercussions from the state of CA as well as the Federal DMV.

Excaliber, it's fun to have AC emblems on the car, and no Cobra or Powered by Ford badges. Enough people know what a Cobra is that they kind of slide up to you and ask, "So, is that a Cobra?" This, of course, is in preparation for them to hit you with the zinger, "Is it REAL?" And naturally they are expecting you to squirm a little and say something like, "Uh, well, not exactly, but you see, it's ..." What's fun is when you respond to their first question ("Is that a Cobra?") with an emphatic "NO." They look at you like you probably shouldn't be out wandering the streets by yourself. And it leaves them almost no place to go. I enjoy it.

[Power Surge]

Originally Posted by terry251

Am I wrong in recalling that Shelby announced he "found" a bunch of unused, original frames (with VINS??), so he decided to launch the "continuation" series? Or was that just some of the marketing creativity at the time? Or maybe my failing memory?

Terry

I already explained that one in this thread but.... those were the "completion" cars. In the early 90s, Shelby contracted Mike McCluskey to built a handfull of new Cobras, but told the public that he had leftover chassis from the 60s. So the new cars were issued 60s VIN numbers, and the cars were to be sold for 500k with the proceeds going to his charities. These were full running cars, BTW. Of course, he got caught lying.

The "continuation" cars started in 1996, when Shelby decided to fight against the replica market and start making the Cobra again, from all new. This time they were in "component" form. The cars DID leave Shelby in "kit" form, but were built and finalized by Shelby dealers for customers. The introduction of the 4700 series cars (starting with 4750) is when Shelby started selling complete rollers, instead of parts sent to dealers to be turned into cars.