buckshot racefab side pipes

[MEATMASTER]

Good Grief is right. Good meat is even righter.

I'm glad we now know who first designed what, who created what, who made what and who was the welder.


MEATMASTER

[emberglo66]

"These cars are overpriced for what you get and that is why I chose not to buy one."

Then why after 5 years are you back on this COBRA site posting about a car you will never own...were you ask to?

Like I said this thread needs to end..... I think I am going to take a ride in my overpriced (what u say "KIT") car! Or my restore mustang! you know what *@#)!~)&@U

[mr. oz]

Originally Posted by RonNichols

Mr. Oz,

What noise? I pulled my ear plugs out when you gave me a ride. Where's your clock weights dude?

Although I don't own fancy side pipes, I would base your decision on the fact that you should wear ear plugs regardless of muffler bore size. Although too big may actually not be optimum.

R

Good idea on the ear plugs. I noticed yours were gray. What are they? Do they fit your ear canal comfortably?

I have extremely large clock weights.

[RonNichols]

Originally Posted by mr. oz

Good idea on the ear plugs. I noticed yours were gray. What are they? Do they fit your ear canal comfortably?

I have extremely large clock weights.

Mr. Oz,

They are finely crafted earmuffs made from the winter pelt of the Grey Beaver. I'm surprised my wife allowed me to use them without accompanying me, as they are usually clipped to her pant suit because grey beaver pelts are quite costly. The Grey Beaver is a boisterous, antagonizing creature known for its loud verbal exchanges and commanding personalities. It is one of those creatures where the female is the dominant alpha personality too, much like the black widow spiders. As you have seen, the grey pelt is very comfortable, very stylish, and has great noise cancelling capabilities. It fits my inner ear canal quite nicely for long periods......

BTW, I'm glad you asked, as they made your 3" bore interchangable stainless side pipes sound quite comfortable. They look good too.

R

[mr. oz]

Originally Posted by RonNichols

Mr. Oz,

They are finely crafted earmuffs made from the winter pelt of the Grey Beaver. I'm surprised my wife allowed me to use them without accompanying me, as they are usually clipped to her pant suit because grey beaver pelts are quite costly. The Grey Beaver is a boisterous, antagonizing creature known for its loud verbal exchanges and commanding personalities. It is one of those creatures where the female is the dominant alpha personality too, much like the black widow spiders. As you have seen, the grey pelt is very comfortable, very stylish, and has great noise cancelling capabilities. It fits my inner ear canal quite nicely for long periods......

BTW, I'm glad you asked, as they made your 3" bore interchangable stainless side pipes sound quite comfortable. They look good too.

R

Wow, thanks for the info. Sounds awfully expensive tho.

[gary osborne]

Sumyred1

Now before you get all cranked up about being “attacked” sumyred1, here is what got ME started. YOU wrote “Gary, you must be a friend too. You said you never heard of Dean yesterday, then today you know all about him. Wow, that's odd.” You also “attacked me when you said “So you too add no value to this conversation also.”

Let’s see. I have been on CC since ‘99 or 2000. You have been here for what….7 posts? I have had the same SPF car for 9 years and put around 50,000 miles on it. You on the other hand have had your car for how long and driven how many miles? Oh yeah…..I remember….ZERO…Nadda….Zip. I have a set of the pipes in question and know one of the principals very well and your experience with the parties and product is….ah…..well…..again… NOTHING. And YOU have the stones to question what I might have of value to add? You are a complete laugh.

As for knowing or not knowing Dean, YOU have that all screwed up too. You said "you never heard of Dean yesterday, then today you know all about him.” Nothing I said was contradictory. I said originally that I had nothing good or bad to say about Dean because I had never heard of him (by name) before. My comment had to do with not knowing “Him” “Dean” as a person and or businessman or as a partner. I did NOT say that I was unaware that someone was doing the fabricating of the pipes other than Ron. I had no expectation of Ron huddled over some pipes doing the welding. I hire people all the time to do things I do not have the time or inclination to do. That does not make one better than the other. It just means “we” (me and them) bring something different to the table. I had no idea if Dean was a partner or hired help NOR did I care. I knew that Ron had someone (now known as Dean) doing the fabricating. My story has not changed.

YOU say [color="blue"]“As far as farming out product, your (should be you are or you’re) implying that everybody does it so it's ok. Maybe, but when you only have one product it's different.”….. [/COLOR]The real reason people outsource is because it is cheaper plain and simple.” I don't see what product line has to do with anything. I would venture to say that small businesses often job out more things than large businesses simply because they are small and do not have the infrastructure to handle everything in house. Does that mean it is cheaper? Maybe. It might also mean it is better or more convenient or necessary due to efficiency or access to materials or has geographic advantages or any number of other reasons. It has been my experience in business that sometimes it is MORE expensive to outsource but it just makes more sense. I never said “everybody did anything”. However, I outsource a LOT of things in my business. One of the big issues in this election is that “jobs” are going out of the country. To pretend that outsourcing is anything less than commonplace just demonstrates a total lack of understanding of how business runs in America.

Then you say “There is a group of people trying to discredit Buckshot on here” I have NOTHING against Buckshot nor have I said anything to discredit them nor have I seen anyone else unless someone like you tried to twist the words around (well…OK….maybe PJ but not even him until the attacks started). I even chose not to argue the point when Barnwindow said that I had Buckshot pipes. Perhaps one could argue (and I am not… but I’ll give an example) that saying “we have all of these patents pending and we are the original yadda yadda” may be claiming credit but that is not Ron or Craig or me talking. BTW, I do NOT believe that was meant to discredit Ron or steal credit either. Just something I could twist if I chose to stir the pot with innuendos like you. All I did when I originally posted was differentiate between my pipes and what is available now from Buckshot by referencing that my pipes were the first generation pipes. I do not know if Dean has done something different with the pipes since I bought mine from Ron and the partnership broke up. It was not intended to start a *****slapping contest or push business in another direction. It was simply a matter of answering a good question accurately by fully disclosing that what I bought a couple of years ago may or may not be what someone would get from Buckshot today. Had I NOT disclosed that, then someone somewhere would say that I was trying to pass mine off as something they are not….they SURELY would have done so had I said something negative about the pipes.

You are right. I AM a friend of Ron’s….well kinda. I have known Ron for a long time but we live in different parts of the country like so many of us here on CC and so I have not spent a lot of time with Ron. However, I have been through a number of long distance experiences with him. Some Cobra related. Some not... but enough to say I know him and the caliber of person he is. That said, I do not remember saying one word to “defend” him. So in answer to your question “Why do you need to defend someone?”…I don’t. Ron’s reputation is flawless and speaks for itself. Why do YOU need to defend Buckshot when you say you do not know them nor have you done business with them nor has anyone attacked them? Hmmmmmmm

You also say, “People come on these forums for help and then people chime in with stuff that is not factual per se in defending someone.”. Again, I did not say anything to defend or accuse anyone. But where is this “not factual per se” come from. I certainly was factual. I know Craig was 100% factual. I think the only one throwing uneducated comments around is the novice in the group….and that would be who again? Oh yeah….YOU.

Then you say “I can get 10 of my friends post on here to and say how great I am but what's the sense. Does it prove anything? It proves something is not right and there must be more to this story then what is being told.” When you ask if that proves anything, the answer is NO. Nor does it prove that “something is not right”. You may be right that there is more to this story than either Ron or Buckshot or anyone else is saying but maybe the fact that they are all taking the high road and not cutting each other down says something about us while your pot stirring says something about you. Maybe the “more” that you are referencing is just no one's business.

You ask with the normal sumyred1 insinuation “how did you get a set of headers made for your car when Ron said he only specializes in parts for his car? His motor is a FE motor while yours is a 427 RDI motor. Wow, that's odd too.” Responding to a question about the Hurricane, Ron said that he specializes in the SPF. That is not odd. Ron is a Cobra hobbyist just like the rest of us. He happens to have some engineering skills that he used to make his car better and then made his design available to his SPF friends. Perhaps he will one day venture out of that specialization but until he does there is no reason to question his integrity. Engine choice is not the issue. There is more to designing pipes than matching headers. There is a whole alignment / body clearance issue and his pipes are specific to SPF. Why would you challenge that remark other than out of ignorance?

And then you throw in “As for the price, they can be marked up about 1/3 to 50%. That is a general rule in business.” This reminds me of the old Saturday Night Live “Point – Counterpoint” satire on the 60 Minutes segment by the same name. Dan Ackroyd would proclaim to Jane Curtain after her argument on some subject “Jane, you ignorant slut”. I have to wonder what planet you are on. That mark up comment could be the most ridiculous comment you made so far. Some companies operate on margins of 4 or 5 percent. I know of companies that mark things up 500% in order to make a decent profit. Mark-ups and margins are painfully different from each other and from industry to industry and there is no “rule”. Ask for an aspirin at the hospital and see what it costs you….probably several dollars more for a dose than a large bottle at the Walmart.

I could go on but my fingers are getting tired. So I will end with, you say “Thats what I don't understand either....” Well, you finally hit one on the head……you don’t understand ANYTHING when it comes to these cars or hobby or pipes or businesses or people or…..oh…..I give up. I am sure you have more mindless BS to share so let’s have it. Drivel on about all the stuff you know nothing about. You are not worth the energy to debate. One cannot reason with an unreasonable person and your methods and motivation are surely suspicious. You are either a Buckshot Buddy and lying about your identity or a pot stirrer and having a blast at other honest people’s expense or just plain stupid. No matter which, you are to be pitied but not taken seriously.

I won’t hide behind an alias either. I use my real name each and every post. It is easy to grab a beer, slide in behind the keyboard and post idiotic babble when one is hiding behind an alias….or lying about their identity. If someone likes or dislikes me for my opinions, so be it. I at least say what I mean and mean what I say. I could easily create a new moniker every four or five posts and spew stupidity all over cyberspace… but for nine years on CC I have been Gary Osborne. So at least I spew my own stupidity openly and honestly. Since you don’t own a car and have no intention on buying one and have no dog in ANY hunt on ANY subject that would pop up on THIS forum, maybe you will go away soon…..I certainly hope so.

Gary

[Lowell W]

The Grey Beaver is a boisterous, antagonizing creature known for its loud verbal exchanges and commanding personalities.

Not to mention its affinity for diamonds, the pelts of other, lesser mammals and males of the species with fine reproduction automobiles.

With my email nonfunctional at the moment, I'm having a real laff watching some folks here scoff at the superior automobiles of other CC members with MUCH more knowledge and experience. Phildo, is that you?

Carry on and pass the popcorn!

Lowell

[John McMahon]

Choose yer sides and grab yer muskets!!!!!!!!!

[StreetSnake]

The point is Dean and Ron where in business together when he first got his SPF. Ron asked Dean if he thought it could be improved and the sidepipes where really the only thing that was holding it back. Thus, Dean built the first set of these pipes for Ron and his buddies. This is where the argument begins. Did Ron take a set of pipes and have them replicated and begin selling behind Dean's back. That is for lawyers to find out not us. Firefly, to my knowledge, was not in existence until Dean became aware of what was going on (Ron's website: buckshotracefab.com vs. Dean's buckshotracefab.net), then firefly came into existence. Its seems pretty shady to me.

As for the battling going on outside this please let it go. I really enjoy being a cobra enthusiast but when you talk like you are special or something it bothers me. If we aren't careful we'll turn into a bunch of vette owners

[emberglo66]

UFO for President!!!!

[RedBarchetta]

Originally Posted by StreetSnake

That is for lawyers to find out not us.

Wow, I didn't know that someone actually filed for and received a provisional patent for a basic exhaust system?

Don't blink, but if there is enough demand for these things the Chinese will figure out a way to mass produce and both of these shops will be out of business.

Two fabricators making the same part...what a concept! It's called competition and capitalism. Competition is actually good for everyone...creates better offerings and more competitive pricing. This is a concept that the Democrats continue to not grasp. Oops...didn't mean to get poliitcal.

-Dean (and not to be confused with the one that has the welding skills)

[sumyred1]

Gary,
You can dispute what you want, spin what you want, and this is boring me. I repsonded to everyone claims in one most not just you. So it is what is. We can agree to disagree. Good luck in the future. By the way, I know cars, I work on cars, and have worked on these cars. But who cares. Last post because their are too many people in denial. Enjoy your kit car and drive it everywhere.

[gary osborne]

StreetSnake,

I agree that it is getting old. That said, I am pretty confident that your comment regarding Dean and Ron being in business together when Ron got his SPF is inaccurate. I think the partnership came quite a while later (actually I am pretty sure of it). But in the effort to stop spreading opinions or recollections as facts (mine included), maybe someone "in the know" can clear that up....or perhaps it does not even matter. The orignal question was how are the pipes. The answer is very nice and well worth the investment. People can choose their favorite vendor based upon whatever criteria they find important to them.

Peace out.

Gary

[StreetSnake]

RedBarchetta,

The lawyers are to find out if the original builds built by Dean were then used to get business for Ron with Dean not being involved. Smart***

Gary,
you are correct that the actual partnership came about after Ron got his SPF, I did not say anything otherwise.

[RedBarchetta]

Originally Posted by StreetSnake

RedBarchetta,

The lawyers are to find out if the original builds built by Dean were then used to get business for Ron with Dean not being involved. Smart***

Oh I get it. Welder A builds a prototype and then Welder B uses prototype to get more business, but doesn't have Welder A do the builds. Harder to prove in court, and in the end, you end up passing the money to the attorneys. Jamo probably understands this formula better than most of us.

These two guys are better off going their separate ways and competing. People that fail to bury the axe usually get hurt by it. Too bad this thread got so distorted, but it has been a hoot to follow. Nice to know everyone now has choices for custom pipes...4 years ago there were hardly any.

[craigayl]

Son of a gun, just when it looks like the thread is about to die? More spin??

Streetsnake posts “Ron asked Dean if he thought it could be improved and the side pipes where really the only thing that was holding it back. Thus, Dean built the first set of these pipes”

Wow.. What a leap!

Actually the first discussion that ended with the production of these pipes was between Ron and myself, in my garage, in early 2003. Ron and I debated how we could get a little more out of our cars which lead us to better pipes. That’s really neither hear nor there and I would not dispute that Ron may have asked Dean a similar question later on. I really don’t know, but I do know that Ron did not ask the question of Dean and then “Dean built the first set of these pipes for Ron”

The production of these pipes included many, many hours of design, supplier and manufacturing considerations. Dean did not spec the pipes, he did not source the parts, he did not front the cash required, he did not produce the stainless steel tubing, he did not bend tubing, he did not do the cutting and fitting, he did not produce the mufflers, nor did he do the polishing. Anyone who knows anything about manufacturing knows that this list goes on and on. As the welder on the first three sets, much of the final assembly took place in Dean’s barn. As a knowledgeable mechanic/car enthusiast/builder, Dean also brings something to the table in design input, but “Dean built the first set”? That sure ignores a ton of detail.

“Did Ron take a set of pipes and have them replicated and begin selling behind Dean's back”. Is this you speculating StreetSnake? By the time things began falling apart, Dean was not even the welder anymore. How about Ron’s wife, Jody, died and Dean was selling pipes without Ron’s knowledge until the new owners were sent back to Ron for warranty work? Yes, Lawyers will sort that one out if necessary.

“Firefly, to my knowledge, was not in existence until Dean became aware of what was going on” “to my knowledge” is key here… The facts.. buckshotracefab.com was published for and paid for by Ron Roberts. When the relationship dissolved, so did the website. In March of 2008 Fireflyperformance.com was published. The .net version of the Buckshot site did not appear until after that.

What ever there once was is no longer. It would be nice if this would all just go quietly away. Deal with who you want. Stop the spin…

BTW. Just one last clarifying point… There are no patents on these pipes.

Craig

[RonNichols]

Craig,

Would you like a nice pair of noise canceling grey beaver pelt ear muffs for those side pipes? MeatMaster has an extra set he'd be willing to part with.

BTW, why don't you do the welding on these side pipes. You could use your new alternator. jk

SpinnersWiredBackwards

[computerworks]

Originally Posted by craigayl

It would be nice if this would all just go quietly away.

I agree... not much side pipe talk left in this thread.

Start a new one if questions persist.

Thanks
ron
ClubCobra Moderator.

[gary osborne]

OK....I wasn't going to but now I have to make one more post.....where does one come by one of those fine pair of grey beaver ear muffs? It gets terribly cold down here in Texas and some beaver wrapped around your head might be just the ticket.

Uncle Fester Osborne....I mean UFO....I mean Gary Osborne

[macloft]

I know a few places in Texas where they wrap beavers around your ears. Not sure they would keep the noice down, certainly not the high pitch ones but damn sure keep your ears warm.