Original 4 inch vs. Billet Poll

[Power Surge]

I dunno, I'm torn really. I like technology and advancement and improvement.

Maybe it's because this is a one off frame right now, with no real world testing. I think subconciously that makes people immediately stay away from it, and to go with what they know works. It might also be the fear of the unknown. There are plenty different chassis designs out there, but nobody makes a chassis that's constructed out of many pieces of billet aluminum bolted together. That may scare people. The car might perfom better than any chassis in the world, but with no testing behind it (stress, vibration, longevity, and salt spray testing), I doubt anyone would put one under thier ass.

Besides, that chassis is starting to look like a billet Corvette chassis .

Oh and BTW Jamo, FFR's frames look just like your Kirkham frame (dual 4" round tube)

[David Kirkham]

Originally Posted by Power Surge

I dunno, I'm torn really. I like technology and advancement and improvement.

Maybe it's because this is a one off frame right now, with no real world testing. I think subconciously that makes people immediately stay away from it, and to go with what they know works. It might also be the fear of the unknown. There are plenty different chassis designs out there, but nobody makes a chassis that's constructed out of many pieces of billet aluminum bolted together. That may scare people. The car might perfom better than any chassis in the world, but with no testing behind it (stress, vibration, longevity, and salt spray testing), I doubt anyone would put one under thier ass.

Besides, that chassis is starting to look like a billet Corvette chassis .

Oh and BTW Jamo, FFR's frames look just like your Kirkham frame (dual 4" round tube)

Judging by every man (and a few women) who have walked through here, I don't think finding someone's butt to go in the seat will be a problem! Funny, if you were to see the car in real life, you might change your mind. Pictures, unfortunately, don't do it justice. As for bolts holding everything together...remember, most cars are held together with bolts anyway. Even connecting rods are held together with bolts and they are subject to stupid amounts of vibration and loading. All jet engines (at least the ones I have seen) are held together with bolts. We are lucky on this one that we have Loctite as well!

How does it perform??? Not sure yet. But from years of experience and having built over 650 cars, I have a pretty good idea.

David

[Power Surge]

Originally Posted by David Kirkham

Judging by every man (and a few women) who have walked through here, I don't think finding someone's butt to go in the seat will be a problem! Funny, if you were to see the car in real life, you might change your mind. Pictures, unfortunately, don't do it justice. As for bolts holding everything together...remember, most cars are held together with bolts anyway. Even connecting rods are held together with bolts and they are subject to stupid amounts of vibration and loading. All jet engines (at least the ones I have seen) are held together with bolts. We are lucky on this one that we have Loctite as well!

How does it perform??? Not sure yet. But from years of experience and having built over 650 cars, I have a pretty good idea.

David

Don't get me wrong David, I am not knocking it. I am DYING to see this thing in action. I was just pointing out why some here may be reluctant to jump on the bandwagon.

[Jamo]

Originally Posted by Power Surge

I dunno, I'm torn really. I like technology and advancement and improvement.

Maybe it's because this is a one off frame right now, with no real world testing. I think subconciously that makes people immediately stay away from it, and to go with what they know works. It might also be the fear of the unknown. There are plenty different chassis designs out there, but nobody makes a chassis that's constructed out of many pieces of billet aluminum bolted together. That may scare people. The car might perfom better than any chassis in the world, but with no testing behind it (stress, vibration, longevity, and salt spray testing), I doubt anyone would put one under thier ass.

Besides, that chassis is starting to look like a billet Corvette chassis .

Oh and BTW Jamo, FFR's frames look just like your Kirkham frame (dual 4" round tube)

I put the bold signal in the wrong place...oh well.

I think folks see the truth in the billet chassis, and I'm betting it would be muy goodo. It just seems like putting a new heart in an old guy...sometimes the result can be, shall we say, a different animal entirely.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Power Surge

---Besides, that chassis is starting to look like a billet Corvette chassis .

Oh and BTW Jamo, FFR's frames look just like your Kirkham frame (dual 4" round tube)

I think too many people put too much emphasis on frame design, when I think for the most part, assuming the frame is of sufficient strength, it doesn't matter what type of frame it is, tubular, square, space frame, etc. I think of far greater importance is suspension design and settings, the take off points for the control arms, camber settings and change rate with travel, spring rate, tire pressure, etc. I just don;t think the frame has that much of an impact on how the car handles.

[Jamo]

Originally Posted by Anthony

I think too many people put too much emphasis on frame design, when I think for the most part, assuming the frame is of sufficient strength, it doesn't matter what type of frame it is, tubular, square, space frame, etc. I think of far greater importance is suspension design and settings, the take off points for the control arms, camber settings and change rate with travel, spring rate, tire pressure, etc. I just don;t think the frame has that much of an impact on how the car handles.

Obviously, the context in which Sal was responding to my post (both in humor) was lost on you. There is another thread where folks are trying to bore each other on the dynamics on frames being square or round, etc. That's what we were making fun of.

[David Kirkham]

Originally Posted by Anthony

I think too many people put too much emphasis on frame design, when I think for the most part, assuming the frame is of sufficient strength, it doesn't matter what type of frame it is, tubular, square, space frame, etc. I think of far greater importance is suspension design and settings, the take off points for the control arms, camber settings and change rate with travel, spring rate, tire pressure, etc. I just don;t think the frame has that much of an impact on how the car handles.

The frame matters most in how it holds said suspension components. A tubular chassis is typically the low end of the spectrum with regard to stiffness. It doesn't really matter if your suspension is 100% kinematically correct if the chassis is so weak it flexes out of shape with the suspension loads. I can immediately tell a tremendous difference between the original 0.090" wall chassis and our 0.130" wall chassis. The flex of the original chassis winds up the frame as you go into a corner and it then unloads as you leave. When you are driving on the edge it is quite unnerving.

That is why all F1 chassis are made from carbon fiber--very light and very stiff (so their suspensions move as they intend them to.

David