Autoweek Magazine

[REAL 1]

It amazes me how much time is spent knocking the man and nearly 0 time spent pointing out the good.

For the Shelby bashers, sell your Cobras or replicas thereof and make the ultimate anti Shelby statement. Buy a Ferrari. Can't afford that? Then buy a Vette.

[Excaliber]

This site is about all things Shelby and that includes "Pit Stop", guitars, pop corn or what ever else the man has endorsed or licensed over the years. It's all part of the fabric of the man and in that regard is interesting. We pick apart the smallest details on the cars themselves because it IS interesting history. So it is with the man himself, it's neither good or bad, it simply is 'history'. Sometimes you just gotta laugh at the silly things Shelby has endorsed along the way, like I would for any celebrity. Comes a time when you say to yourself, "WHAT the heck was he thinking?"

Or should we bury all the various apparent blunders along the way and only concern ourselves with the victories?

Thanks for that post A-Snake, a good read about Holman Moody!

[computerworks]

...slow day at the office, Evan?

[REAL 1]

Nah. Just tired of working today and kill'n time. Man, I want to go home!!!!

Hey, wait a minute!!! Thats it. I'll just go home.

Thanks Ron!

Oinie: Point well taken. So where are the posts about all the good! Did I miss them or "it" somewhere.

[4pipes]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

It amazes me how much time is spent knocking the man and nearly 0 time spent pointing out the good.

For the Shelby bashers, sell your Cobras or replicas thereof and make the ultimate anti Shelby statement. Buy a Ferrari. Can't afford that? Then buy a Vette.

How is owning a Ferrari, Corvette, or any car an Anti Shelby statement?

[CobraEd]

Originally Posted by computerworks

...slow day at the office, Evan?

He never posts anything interesting, funny, insightful, informative, or of value to anyone. Only the same ditribe over and over again that no on believes or even listens to. Every time he "posts" everyone jumps on him for inapropriatness.

How long?????

[REAL 1]

Thats funny. I learn from every post I make! I never cease to amaze myself and find my posts informative and invaluable!

Maybe CobraEd's statement is motivated by the fact that I routinely point out how wrong he usually is. Hmmm.

Anyway...

4Pipes: Do some reading on Shelby History instead of reading the anti Shelby dribble here and you will understand my statement.

[Juggernaut]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

Thats funny. I learn from every post I make! I never cease to amaze myself and find my posts informative and invaluable!

Maybe CobraEd's statement is motivated by the fact that I routinely point out how wrong he usually is. Hmmm.

Anyway...

4Pipes: Do some reading on Shelby History instead of reading the anti Shelby dribble here and you will understand my statement.

Sheesh.........................., you need to relax a little Bubba.

You aren't representing the CS supporters very well................. just sayin'.

[REAL 1]

Juggernaut: So say you.

I disagree since I don't see anyone else doing it therefore so far I've been the best at it.

[xlr8or]

Once again no contribution. Just more of the same stuff.. How about your thoughts on the posted article from Lee Holman. What do you think of his comments about Shelby?
Is Lee Holman just another Shelby basher?
I assume (yes I know the risk of that) that there are some brain cells in your head if you were able to graduate from law school. How about using a few of them instead of blabbering out the same old crap.

[computerworks]

Evan...now you are just crapping up the thread for the sport of it.

Go home, will ya.

[REAL 1]

Ok. My thoughts on the Holman & Moody letter to Hot Rod. Its sounds like it was written by an angry individual.

While Holman & Moody are legend in the performance field the "letter" makes it sound that without Holman & Moody SAI would not have accomplished any of automotive feats they did. That is just not the case.

Shelby, did much more then market the Cobra and Mr. Holmans letter short changes the many talented men at SAI including but not limited to CS, Phil Remington, Brock, Miles and many others who are noted in the history books.

Mr. Holman also fails to point or clarify that the Shelby Ford GT 40 piloted by Ken Miles would have won the triple crown in 1966 but for Henry's direction at LeMans (The famed 1,2,3 finish). Miles was ahead at LeMans and the Holman & Moody would not have finished first ahead of Miles regardless. For Homan to suggest their car could have or would have finished ahead of Miles is fantasy and fiction. Holman and Moodys car was third regardless of any direction from Henry Ford. In 1967 Gurney drove a very smart race in the Red Ford GT Mark IV and finished ahead of the Park's Ferrari 330p which was hot on his tail. Holman and Moody's car was no where in sight at the finish. What is Holman talking about? In fact the next Ford GT (Shelby Team) finished 4th behind another Ferrari 330P. Gurney not only won in class but overall. Shelby also won the World Manufactures Championship with the 289 Cobra, created the 289 and 427 Cobra, Daytona Cobra (all legendary cars) on and on without Holman & Moody.

Seems Mr. Holman forgot overlooked/skewed some facts himself.

[Ron61]

Evan,

I stated that I did not intend to get into any arguments over this but was just posting the link to the letter and I am not going to argue over it. But would you please tell me how you are such an authority on all things. And yes, I am sure that I am one of the idiots that you look down on and I really don't care. But these people were there and you just read the reports and history like the rest of us.

Ron

[xlr8or]

I don't think he short changed the guys at SAI but is rather saying the Without help from many different places he wouldn't be where he is today.

He said "While one does have to give Shelby credit for placing himself in the right place at the right time, so that he could become a legend of the performance industry, he did not do any of this alone. Other people had put a Ford V8 engine in a AC Ace, other people had won in Mustangs , but Shelby was able to market those products and himself. It took, Ford, Holman & Moody, Alan Mann and all the great drivers and team members of each of those teams and the hard work of the Shelby American Automobile Club to enable Mr. Shelby to be what he is today."

Seems to me that lately Shelby is doing more to discredit and throw guys like Brock under the bus. You know the coupe being such a huge mistake and all...

[CSX 4039]

I bought my CSX because they are beautiful, and I wanted one since I was seven. I didn't get it because of Carroll Shelby the great racer or his craggy good looks. Didn't know that much about him, honestly.
Now that I know about him, and the fact that it sounds like even then he was mostly an unsophisticated self-promoting marketer and not a grease monkey, aerodymanics genius, nor engineering guru, I still think the Cobra is a beautiful car that I liked since I was seven. Is his long history of behavior disappointing? To me, yes. But, I didn't buy my car because of him, I bought it cause I like the car. And, I'm sure Enzo was no saint, either, but I'd still love to have a '64 Ferrari GTO. Or, for that matter a 2003 360 spyder. DeLorean sold cocaine, for Pete's sake.
Lee Iacocca is a great guy, suitable for sainthood. But, I don't lust for a K-car because he was a great guy.

[4pipes]

"4Pipes: Do some reading on Shelby History instead of reading the anti Shelby dribble here and you will understand my statement. "

What makes you think I haven't read the history. I have owned a Ferrari, and presently own a Corvette and a Cobra. Sorry, a Kirkham.

[RodKnock]

I can't afford a Ferrari, or at least the maintenance of it, so I have a Cobra and a Corvette.

Can't anyone else think of anything to say bad asbout CS? Come on anyone?

Thread Killer strikes again.

[Traveller]

I heard that 'ol Shel found some leftover chilli way in the back of his pantry and he's thinking about marketing it as "Completion Chilli".

Of course, I could be wrong

[REAL 1]

Ron61: I wasn't responding to you and candidly I don't look down on you nor do I think you are an idiot. I don't even know you or have anything against you so I'm not sure what you are talking about or why you said what you did. But, whatever.

While Mr. Lee Holman was there, he was quite young at the time and I believe he was at that stage more a spectator. Shelby was there also but as a team owner and company owner who had an accomplished racing history/resume' including a win at LeMans and had developed the already legendary Cobras. How can you compare the two? While I wasn't there it is true that I learned what I learned by reading various sources.

While CS didn't accomplish what he did all by himself and clearly had help from many talented drivers and automotive designers working for SAI, Mr. Holman makes it sound like Holman & Moody helped make Shelby's successes as outlined in my post come to fruition. This is simply not true. Holman & Moody, Alan Mann and the like didn't work to help Shelby. They were competing teams. Holman & Moody nor Alan Mann helped SAI. With the talent SAI had at the time they didn't need Holman & Moody or Alan Mann. If they did then Mr. Holman needs to tell us specifically what Holman & Moody did to help SAI and Shelby acheive all their accomplishments. They certainly didn't help SAI win the World Manufacturers Title, they certainly didn't help develope the Daytona Coupe Cobra, they certainly didn't help in the Daytona Coupe's victory at LeMans in 1964, they certainly didn't help Shelby put his GT40's amoung the 1,2,3 finish at LeMans in 1966 or help Miles come close to the triple crown that year. They certainly didn't help Shelby and Gurney and AJ Foyt win LeMans overall in 1967 with the Mark IV. Holman & Moody certainly didn't develope the Cobras of any iteration.

What did I say that wasn't understandable.

Xl8or: I read what Holman said. As usual you are just parroting what Holman said because it dilutes Shelby's accomplishments dispite the fact what Holman said is misleading as I pointed out above. But hey, why let the facts get in the way. Same old same old at CC.

4Pipes: What makes me think you don't know much about SAI/CS history? Simple. It was the question you asked. Anyone who didn't know CS view and sentiment vis a vis Ferrari or the Corvette back in the 1960s can't be that conversant with Shelby history. As a Ferrari owner/or former owner, a Vette owner and a Kirkham owner I would have thought you would have grasped the meaning of my statement. I sure you have books on the Cobra and Shelby. Go read them and I'm sure it won't take long before you'll get it.

My point is very simple. Shelby is not perfect. I too have issues with some of the things he has done. But he is not all bad and has done alot of positive things also. Those positive things are never discussed. The man is continually knocked here. While any of his behavior is fair game the good certainly doesn't get equal play. In fact it hardly gets any play. Thats my point.

[venum14]

I agree, Shelby has done some great things and helped numerous charities and so on. He is also a businessperson who has had some shaking dealings and made many promises. He has had great luck being in the right place at the right time and he took advantage of it.

In the late eighties, I shook his hand and even got several free autographs and pictures while I was showing my Boss 302 at SAAC 13. As long as he is alive, there will be controversy and finger pointing mostly focused on the bad stuff, which is life these days; we focus more on the bad than the good in people.

With that being said, just remember there is no “I” in team and deep down I feel Mr. Shelby knows it!