Autoweek Magazine

CobraEd · #1 (**permalink**) 07-17-2008, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by computerworks

...slow day at the office, Evan?

He never posts anything interesting, funny, insightful, informative, or of value to anyone. Only the same ditribe over and over again that no on believes or even listens to. Every time he "posts" everyone jumps on him for inapropriatness.

How long?????

REAL 1 · #2 (**permalink**) 07-17-2008, 01:53 PM

Thats funny. I learn from every post I make!

I never cease to amaze myself and find my posts informative and invaluable!

Maybe CobraEd's statement is motivated by the fact that I routinely point out how wrong he usually is.

Hmmm.

Anyway...

4Pipes: Do some reading on Shelby History instead of reading the anti Shelby dribble here and you will understand my statement.

Juggernaut · #3 (**permalink**) 07-17-2008, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by REAL 1

Thats funny. I learn from every post I make!

I never cease to amaze myself and find my posts informative and invaluable!

Maybe CobraEd's statement is motivated by the fact that I routinely point out how wrong he usually is.

Hmmm.

Anyway...

4Pipes: Do some reading on Shelby History instead of reading the anti Shelby dribble here and you will understand my statement.

Sheesh.........................., you need to relax a little Bubba.

You aren't representing the CS supporters very well................. just sayin'.

REAL 1 · #4 (**permalink**) 07-17-2008, 02:24 PM

Juggernaut: So say you.

I disagree since I don't see anyone else doing it therefore so far I've been the best at it.

4pipes · #5 (**permalink**) 07-17-2008, 05:50 PM

"4Pipes: Do some reading on Shelby History instead of reading the anti Shelby dribble here and you will understand my statement. "

What makes you think I haven't read the history. I have owned a Ferrari, and presently own a Corvette and a Cobra. Sorry, a Kirkham.

RodKnock · #6 (**permalink**) 07-17-2008, 08:32 PM

I can't afford a Ferrari, or at least the maintenance of it, so I have a Cobra and a Corvette.

Can't anyone else think of anything to say bad asbout CS? Come on anyone?

Thread Killer strikes again.

REAL 1 · #7 (**permalink**) 07-17-2008, 08:53 PM

Ron61: I wasn't responding to you and candidly I don't look down on you nor do I think you are an idiot. I don't even know you or have anything against you so I'm not sure what you are talking about or why you said what you did. But, whatever.

While Mr. Lee Holman was there, he was quite young at the time and I believe he was at that stage more a spectator. Shelby was there also but as a team owner and company owner who had an accomplished racing history/resume' including a win at LeMans and had developed the already legendary Cobras. How can you compare the two? While I wasn't there it is true that I learned what I learned by reading various sources.

While CS didn't accomplish what he did all by himself and clearly had help from many talented drivers and automotive designers working for SAI, Mr. Holman makes it sound like Holman & Moody helped make Shelby's successes as outlined in my post come to fruition. This is simply not true. Holman & Moody, Alan Mann and the like didn't work to help Shelby. They were competing teams. Holman & Moody nor Alan Mann helped SAI. With the talent SAI had at the time they didn't need Holman & Moody or Alan Mann. If they did then Mr. Holman needs to tell us specifically what Holman & Moody did to help SAI and Shelby acheive all their accomplishments. They certainly didn't help SAI win the World Manufacturers Title, they certainly didn't help develope the Daytona Coupe Cobra, they certainly didn't help in the Daytona Coupe's victory at LeMans in 1964, they certainly didn't help Shelby put his GT40's amoung the 1,2,3 finish at LeMans in 1966 or help Miles come close to the triple crown that year. They certainly didn't help Shelby and Gurney and AJ Foyt win LeMans overall in 1967 with the Mark IV. Holman & Moody certainly didn't develope the Cobras of any iteration.

What did I say that wasn't understandable.

Xl8or: I read what Holman said. As usual you are just parroting what Holman said because it dilutes Shelby's accomplishments dispite the fact what Holman said is misleading as I pointed out above. But hey, why let the facts get in the way. Same old same old at CC.

4Pipes: What makes me think you don't know much about SAI/CS history? Simple. It was the question you asked. Anyone who didn't know CS view and sentiment vis a vis Ferrari or the Corvette back in the 1960s can't be that conversant with Shelby history. As a Ferrari owner/or former owner, a Vette owner and a Kirkham owner I would have thought you would have grasped the meaning of my statement. I sure you have books on the Cobra and Shelby. Go read them and I'm sure it won't take long before you'll get it.

My point is very simple. Shelby is not perfect. I too have issues with some of the things he has done. But he is not all bad and has done alot of positive things also. Those positive things are never discussed. The man is continually knocked here. While any of his behavior is fair game the good certainly doesn't get equal play. In fact it hardly gets any play. Thats my point.

venum14 · #8 (**permalink**) 07-17-2008, 09:46 PM

I agree, Shelby has done some great things and helped numerous charities and so on. He is also a businessperson who has had some shaking dealings and made many promises. He has had great luck being in the right place at the right time and he took advantage of it.

In the late eighties, I shook his hand and even got several free autographs and pictures while I was showing my Boss 302 at SAAC 13. As long as he is alive, there will be controversy and finger pointing mostly focused on the bad stuff, which is life these days; we focus more on the bad than the good in people.

With that being said, just remember there is no “I” in team and deep down I feel Mr. Shelby knows it!

Tom Kirkham · #9 (**permalink**) 07-17-2008, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by REAL 1

Ron61:
...Holman & Moody, Alan Mann and the like didn't work to help Shelby. They were competing teams. Holman & Moody nor Alan Mann helped SAI. With the talent SAI had at the time they didn't need Holman & Moody or Alan Mann. If they did then Mr. Holman needs to tell us specifically what Holman & Moody did to help SAI and Shelby acheive all their accomplishments. They certainly didn't help SAI win the World Manufacturers Title, they certainly didn't help develope the Daytona Coupe Cobra...

From Lee Holman

"Mr., Shelby seems also to have forgotten that it was Alan Mann Racing that raced the Cobra Coupes in Europe in 1965 with myself as part of the team that year, and that it was the performance of Alan Mann Racing that won the championship for the Ford Cobras that year."

I believe Pete Brock's book The Daytona Coupe agrees with Lee. Pete has told me that CS was working on the GT40 and did not have time to work on the Cobras. Hence Alan Mann ran the Cobras in 1965.

A-Snake · #10 (**permalink**) 07-18-2008, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Kirkham

From Lee Holman

"Mr., Shelby seems also to have forgotten that it was Alan Mann Racing that raced the Cobra Coupes in Europe in 1965 with myself as part of the team that year, and that it was the performance of Alan Mann Racing that won the championship for the Ford Cobras that year."

I believe Pete Brock's book The Daytona Coupe agrees with Lee. Pete has told me that CS was working on the GT40 and did not have time to work on the Cobras. Hence Alan Mann ran the Cobras in 1965.

If you don't have Peter's book, "The Cobra-Ferrari Wars" by Michael Shoen chapter #34 'One Last Time' will add insight into the 1965 European season and Alan Mann's involvement.
While you're reading you might as well read chapters 35, 36, 37, & 38.