Nascar '09

[Ibr8k4vetts]

I was just looking at the NASCAR '09 schedule and they have changed the Las Vegas U.A.W. race to the Shelby 427 I guess there was not enough bailout money for the U.A.W. to keep the race.

[FIA-ERA]

This I believe is the first of many changes!! It will be a pretty interesting season for sure. To think we thought the "silly season" had already passed. What do you guy's think? Tony will probably sink with GM's problems. Where are all these top notch mechanics going after round after round of lay offs? I think the big surprise next year will be Robby Gordan now switching to Toyota. I really think next year will be a tough year in general with all Motorsports! I say, lets get back to grass roots racing and real "stock" cars.

[elmariachi]

NASCAR has gotten stupidly large and out of control. And the car companies have been right in the middle of it. The cars are all the same, the sponsorships and enormous financial involvement has smothered out the real sport. Its all about advertising and pretty-boy personalities. That ain't racing. If the car companies go home, the big sponsors take a break and France has to rethink what it takes to draw a crowd, maybe they'll figure out that people want to see a race and not a parade. The fastest way to fill the stands is abandon the car of tomorrow, remove all restrictor plates, publish and consistently enforce one uniform set of standards and rules for engines and cars, and get the hell out of the way and let 'em race. And if that means Ford beats Chevy 10 races in a row by 10 laps (or vice versa), then that's just the way it is.

Off my soapbox...

[jmimac351]

Originally Posted by elmariachi

NASCAR has gotten stupidly large and out of control. And the car companies have been right in the middle of it. The cars are all the same, the sponsorships and enormous financial involvement has smothered out the real sport. Its all about advertising and pretty-boy personalities. That ain't racing. If the car companies go home, the big sponsors take a break and France has to rethink what it takes to draw a crowd, maybe they'll figure out that people want to see a race and not a parade. The fastest way to fill the stands is abandon the car of tomorrow, remove all restrictor plates, publish and consistently enforce one uniform set of standards and rules for engines and cars, and get the hell out of the way and let 'em race. And if that means Ford beats Chevy 10 races in a row by 10 laps (or vice versa), then that's just the way it is.

Off my soapbox...

Agreed. This is why I so enjoy watching the American Le Mans Series as well as the Rolex Series. Great racing.

[SPF2245]

I actually am leaning more towards standard car chassis (the exterior needs to be a little more like what's on the street), power-plants switch to a standardized fuel injection, Nascar provides the computers, all have to use the same generic box (limit RPMs to 6-6500rpms so the cost of development and building would allow privateers to enter). Keep all weight restrictions the same and allow these guys to race not on budgets but on talent. Then if a Ford wins 10 in a row, it was the driver, not the budget or the team alone that got it done.

If Nascar doesn't do something soon, it will be left with 15-20 teams with budgets and 10or so teams that just drive in the back of the field with no hope of ever winning, regardless of the quality of the driver for either group. That is why I like the different racing offered by Mazda, standard cars (open wheeled or their Miata's) where the drivers control the race, not the budget.

[elmariachi]

Originally Posted by jmimac351

Agreed. This is why I so enjoy watching the American Le Mans Series as well as the Rolex Series. Great racing.

Amen to that. I wish I lived closer where I could see one of the races in person. The competition is stout and driver talent makes all the difference.

Originally Posted by SPF2245

I actually am leaning more towards standard car chassis (the exterior needs to be a little more like what's on the street),

If Nascar doesn't do something soon, it will be left with 15-20 teams with budgets and 10or so teams that just drive in the back of the field with no hope of ever winning, regardless of the quality of the driver for either group.

I vote you in and Bill France Jr out.

[Wayne Maybury]

I actually like "run what ya brung" racing. Rules should be limited to safety standards, minimum weight, maximum engine displacement, body dimensions (height, width, length), number & size of tires, etc. These are also supposed to be "stock" cars so they should have to start off with a stock body like they did in the old days.

Wayne

[Ron61]

I don't watch much NASCAR any more as to me it really isn't racing but more of a high speed parade.I like road racing more and watch as much of that as I can. And there are more of the cheaper types of racing starting to spring up around here. Thunder Hill has a series now I believe that basically uses older cars that are safe and have the safety equipment in them.

Also NASCAR has lost their sponsor for the Watkins Glen Race as the boat company that has been sponsoring it opted out of their last year of the contract saying it was to expensive and they are having to cut back to stay in business. I don't believe this will be a great year for NACAR as they may have to face the fact they aren't the greatest racing on the planet.

Ron

[Bartruff1]

If that was ever true it might have been when they actually raced cars that were at least similar to the cars that you could buy...eg Trans Am in the 60's and Stock Cars in the 50's. NASCAR is whistling past the grave yard now, there are not 15 teams that have budgets to make them competitive. To hear the double talk by the big three about the need to market thru NASCAR is just laughable, it is simply boys and their toys. If you can name a car that increased market share by racing (Porche, Ferrari) , I can name 20 that had great success and are now long gone. Both Hendrick and Penske are very big dealership companies. The dealers are in big trouble. Penske is a public company (PAG) and you can look at their filings, it isn't pretty. Roush is very dependent on the auto industry. I can not believe that the big three, or even the big 4 if you include Toyota will be able to justify to their stockholders the cost of racing. I understand Honda is out of F1. I would not be surprised to see racing return to it's roots and I for one think that is a good deal.

[am6948]

Originally Posted by elmariachi

Amen to that.

I wish I lived closer where I could see one of the races in person. The competition is stout and driver talent makes all the difference.



I vote you in and Bill France Jr out.

Elmriachi,

If you are close to Fort Worth you can see on in person, NASCAR races are held in April and November.

[Joe Wicked]

I think he was referring to the Le Mans races

[elmariachi]

Originally Posted by am6948

Elmriachi,

If you are close to Fort Worth you can see on in person, NASCAR races are held in April and November.

Correct, I was referring to the LeMans races. I have been to Nascar events at Atlanta, Talladega, Daytona, Bristol and Texas. I'm not an old-timer yet but I grew up on #s 21, 28, 9, 7 and 3. It'll never be the same.

And, in spite my ridicule and incessant harrassment about it not being a "manly thing to use," the kid using the body wash is apparently getting more action than me.

[Joe Wicked]

Well the average American is an idiot that believes the product in the commercial will get them laid.

[Ron61]

Just read this on the news. Chrysler is going to shut down for a while but won't pull out of NASCAR. With the few teams Dodge has, it seems to me that would be a good place to save somemoney.

http://www.reuters.com/article/busin...e=businessNews

Ron

[Bartruff1]

Originally Posted by Ron61

Just read this on the news. Chrysler is going to shut down for a while but won't pull out of NASCAR. With the few teams Dodge has, it seems to me that would be a good place to save somemoney.

http://www.reuters.com/article/busin...e=businessNews

Ron

That is very informative and interesting but I think it is still whistling past the graveyard. I am sure the man is telling you what he thinks is the truth but I wonder if he can see the forest for the trees. The Golden Rule is that " He that has the gold makes the rules " and the people that are being ask to provide the gold (The taxpayers/bond holders/stockholders) are going to have to be convinced that there is a positive cost benefit associated to racing and I believe that will be a tough sell. It is my understanding that it is the Dodge Dealers that provide the funding ? They may be in bigger trouble than the Company . It will be interesting to see what happens. I remember siting and watching in disbelief when the World Trade Center came down on that sad day. It was just a few weeks ago that the spokesmen for Fanny/Freddy/Leman Bros/Citi/Goldman/Madoff.. etc were telling everyone that things were ok....well, they weren't

[Silverback51]

One interesting view.



http://www.autoblog.com/2008/12/16/i...376x1200979994

[Bartruff1]

Originally Posted by Silverback51

One interesting view.



http://www.autoblog.com/2008/12/16/i...376x1200979994

are always interesting but tend to be on the far left of what are called environmental wacko's. Car racing is a product and there is market for auto racing and it won't go away, but it may not be the current NASCAR product. As you know, Silverback, the big three have withdrawn their support from stock car racing several times in the past and it survived. I can think of several series that bet their survival on the continued support of the auto manufactures and they have had serious trouble when that support left, it is a failed business model. Stock Car Racing is a pretty large industry and will survive but most likely not in it's current state.

[RedBarchetta]

Originally Posted by Silverback51

One interesting view.

Same could be said about your avatar.

[coosawjack]

Originally Posted by Silverback51

One interesting view.



http://www.autoblog.com/2008/12/16/i...376x1200979994

I REALLY like your avatar....Silverback and I thought that was what you were talking about (One interesting view) at first!!!

Nascar will survive but they too will see A LOT of changes!!

[Ron61]

Originally Posted by Bartruff1

That is very informative and interesting but I think it is still whistling past the graveyard. I am sure the man is telling you what he thinks is the truth but I wonder if he can see the forest for the trees. The Golden Rule is that " He that has the gold makes the rules " and the people that are being ask to provide the gold (The taxpayers/bond holders/stockholders) are going to have to be convinced that there is a positive cost benefit associated to racing and I believe that will be a tough sell. It is my understanding that it is the Dodge Dealers that provide the funding ? They may be in bigger trouble than the Company . It will be interesting to see what happens. I remember siting and watching in disbelief when the World Trade Center came down on that sad day. It was just a few weeks ago that the spokesmen for Fanny/Freddy/Leman Bros/Citi/Goldman/Madoff.. etc were telling everyone that things were ok....well, they weren't

It wasn't that long ago that Bill France was on TV telling everyone that NASCAR had no problems at all and even if the Big 3 completely withdrew it would not affect them in any bad way. That last part could be partly true as the cars are no longer even a reasonable copy of a Ford, Chevy, Etc. But the money they pour into NASCAR for R&D would be missed and I have seen places last year that they didn't show the grandstand in places because of empty seats. I think there will be more of that this year. People have more important things for what little money they have now than paying an exorbitant price to watch a bunch of spec cars run around in a circle. I hate to see any business go down, but I don't feel that NASCAR is vital to the country. I do believe they like the Big 3 will survive, but in a much different way than what we have seen in the past.

Ron