Pin drive bolts splitting Help Please - Page 5

Paul F · #1 (**permalink**) 01-06-2009, 05:43 PM

I'm in for a set of 20, but first I'd like to send you one of mine to make sure its the same. I'll send it out tomorrow.

Paul F · #2 (**permalink**) 01-06-2009, 05:50 PM

Make that a set of 22. Might as well have a couple of extras.

427PMS · #3 (**permalink**) 01-06-2009, 05:52 PM

David
I am in for a set of 20 for the Trigo pins, I hope we can get enough interest for you to make a run . Keep me informed .

Thanks Chris

cdnus · #4 (**permalink**) 01-06-2009, 06:58 PM

David,
The Vintage site states on the "products page" pin lugs available in sizes
1/2"X20
7/16"X20
12mm.X1.5
As far as as the taper goes I believe most have a taper, mine do.

Craig

LMH · #5 (**permalink**) 01-06-2009, 11:38 PM

David,
Count me in for a set of 20. How/when would you like payment?
Larry

cdnus · #6 (**permalink**) 01-07-2009, 09:18 AM

They are supposed to be hub concentric, but mine have such a large radius on the inside that they actually do not come in contact with the hub flange.
Therefore they are centered by the studs & taper on the nuts only. Not that that is a bad thing, just perhaps not the best.
I do have 15k mi. on these this way with no problems, so for street use they are ok I guess.
Craig

Larry N Johnson · #7 (**permalink**) 01-07-2009, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdnus

They are supposed to be hub concentric, but mine have such a large radius on the inside that they actually do not come in contact with the hub flange.
Therefore they are centered by the studs & taper on the nuts only. Not that that is a bad thing, just perhaps not the best.
I do have 15k mi. on these this way with no problems, so for street use they are ok I guess.
Craig

I have drive at Miller Motorsport Track nearly 140 mph; no issues. Center is center. The studs can hold up 640 lb per corner pretty easy.

CNGreen · #8 (**permalink**) 01-07-2009, 04:45 PM

David,

I sent the pin adapter and a sample nut via Fed-Ex. You should get it tomorrow afternoon.

You can sent it back via ground shipping. It's a lot cheaper. I just wanted to help you get the measurements faster...

David Kirkham · #9 (**permalink**) 01-07-2009, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CNGreen

David,

I sent the pin adapter and a sample nut via Fed-Ex. You should get it tomorrow afternoon.

You can sent it back via ground shipping. It's a lot cheaper. I just wanted to help you get the measurements faster...

Thanks! We send it back to you tomorrow!

David

David Kirkham · #10 (**permalink**) 01-07-2009, 08:12 PM

Made the 1st pins today. I will post pictures tomorrow.

David

Larry N Johnson · #11 (**permalink**) 01-08-2009, 10:54 AM

Got the Vintage pin from Terry Stapley last night.
Will bring it over today along w his Vintage spinner.
Can bring my Trigo spinner too if it "would help the cause".
Let me know David if you get this.

Note: the Vintage pin is shorter than the Trigo. You may want to use the shorter size for both applications. Just a thought.

CNGreen · #12 (**permalink**) 01-08-2009, 11:27 AM

Larry,

A Trigo pin is on a FedEx truck for delivery today. You could bring yours so they can check for variences but I believe both of our pins are from the Lynn Park days, correct? I don't know if the specs changed after the purchase by So-Cal speed...

David (I only deserve one smiley compared to Mr. Kirkham!)

David Kirkham · #13 (**permalink**) 01-08-2009, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larry N Johnson

Got the Vintage pin from Terry Stapley last night.
Will bring it over today along w his Vintage spinner.
Can bring my Trigo spinner too if it "would help the cause".
Let me know David if you get this.

Note: the Vintage pin is shorter than the Trigo. You may want to use the shorter size for both applications. Just a thought.

Larry Thanks!

I will look forward to seeing you.

We made 60 pins today for the Trigo guys. I couldn't wait for the material to arrive, so I dug into the rem pile. (Rem is short for remanent, or the little drops at the end of a bar.) Usually we bar-feed this part on a lathe so it is all automatic. I just didn't want to wait any longer so I ran these by hand to get going on the project.

David

hisss snake · #14 (**permalink**) 01-08-2009, 01:58 PM

Hi
I don,t know if you have your pin problem fixed but another thing to look for is the length of the studs that you are using .I have the Trigo wheels and the instruction sheet gives a minimum clearance between the end of the stud and the end of the pin . I was experementing with different length studs and failed to check clearance and ended up splitting a pin .

David Kirkham · #15 (**permalink**) 01-08-2009, 02:04 PM

Our pins are threaded all the way though. The wheel stud will come through the pin if it is too long and it will be quite obvious.

David

CNGreen · #16 (**permalink**) 01-08-2009, 03:46 PM

David,

Did you get the pin?

Got any pics of the new pin nuts?

BTW, just for clarity, are the nuts called pins? I thought the "Pin" in Pin drive meant the single large "bolt" that goes through the rim and the spinner spins on to?

David Kirkham · #17 (**permalink**) 01-08-2009, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CNGreen

David,

Did you get the pin?

Got any pics of the new pin nuts?

BTW, just for clarity, are the nuts called pins? I thought the "Pin" in Pin drive meant the single large "bolt" that goes through the rim and the spinner spins on to?

I haven't seen it yet. It should show up any minute. I will post when it does.

The pins are in the oven right now. When they get out I will take a pic and post it.

In the racing world, "pin" refers to the "drive pin" on the hub of a "pin drive" wheel. The "single large bolt" that the spinner threads on to...??? We just call it the snout.

David

CNGreen · #18 (**permalink**) 01-08-2009, 04:18 PM

Now, see that? I been edumacated today!

David Kirkham · #19 (**permalink**) 01-08-2009, 06:42 PM

Gents:

I am sorry to say, the education is about to continue.

When I measured the Trigo pins the first time, I just grabbed a simple protractor tool. They obviously did not have a 90 degree taper and 82 looked pretty close so I figured that is what it was.

Well, today I bused out the Mitutoyo angle gauge to check our pins as we made them...it wasn't pretty. Our pins are right on the money at 82 degrees, but I held the taper up to a Trigo taper and noticed it was slightly off...hmmm???

What gives?

Remeasured our pin...82 degrees. Remeasured the Trigo pin (this time with a proper angle gauge...76 degrees!!!!!!!

Let's see. Standard tapers in machining. 60, 82, 90, 100 and 120 degrees. NO 76 ANYWHERE I have ever seen.

Oh well. I'll wait to see what the adapter is actually machined to and then we will fix the pins. No big deal, but irritating, none the less.

Perhaps, (and only perhaps) this is why some people have had problems with the pins. Perhaps the taper of the pin doesn't match the taper of the hub adapter. If the tapers don't match, you will have very high point loading on the parts, exceed the yield of the material, and have a galling fest. Galling could very well cause the pins to tip and cause all sorts of grief.

David

ps. CNGreen
Better send me along the tracking number. Fed Ex didn't deliver today.

Paul F · #20 (**permalink**) 01-10-2009, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominik

Sadly, that problem has been around for years with "wheels sticking" (due to non-concentric nuts)
I had new nuts done for my clients in Germany and South-Africa since years.
Gladly, we found someone to take on the problem in the US and solve it with the help of all here :-)
Ironically, Kirkham does not even use that setup!

Now we can start a new thread about the spinners...

Dom

But...but we haven't finished this one. David suggest we make the tapers match and make them out of good material.

David, you made a bunch of pins. Can we use them?