Run and hide little cobra

[DMXF]

Sal makes a good point in that the Cobra was cut short of its full development. I also seem to remember reading that the Cheetah's suffered from poor aerodynamics and suspension design flaws that probably would have limited all out racing success. The only real thing it seems to have going for it is power to weight ratio. That 215mph sounds questionable and I wouldn't believe it unless substantiated by evidence and solid, proven analysis. I'm sure it's a fun car to drive though, especially if the new versions have design improvements to address some of the issues.

[John McMahon]

Well, you could also say the Cheetah's development was cut short too.

The second aluminum bodied Cheetah was sent to GM Testing where it pulled the highest lateral accelration GM had ever seen at the time (1.18g) and comparable to the handling of cars of today.

Bill Thomas was developing the 'Super Cheetah' as a street version of the Cheetah, he was going to stretch the body 8 inches so it could fit on a Corvette chassis. In Sept 1965, before the Super Cheetah body could be sent out for fiberglass molds to be made, a fire broke out in Thomas's shop and destroyed it all.

I believe a total of 37 Cheetahs were built. To me, this is the all American built race car. I love the look, it screams American 1960s overkill. No grace whatsoever about it.

...plus, only a few replicas exist. I'd love to own one.

You da man, Mr Bruce!!!!

[DMXF]

Skid pad alone doesn't mean much as far as overall handling, it's just one parameter. From some internet searching on the Cheetah, following are some interesting tidbits:

"did quite well on the skid pad, it was concluded that the lack of torsional rigidity was responsible for the erratic handling."

"The handling was never widely acclaimed, however, and it was obvious that Titus’ skill was making up for a lot.....A local Chevrolet dealer picked up the sponsorship, and Titus raced the car briefly, but never with any outstanding success."

"A well detailed Cheetah was a beautiful machine, although it had a number of critical drawbacks in either everyday transportation or control on a race track. "

"The Cheetah was never really intended to be a race car.
Like most other Chevy specials, it’s primary purpose was to make money.
But to make money, it had to be produced as economically as possible, which meant few specially machined or welded parts."

"Practically every piece in the drive train, from the radiator back to the rear hubs was right our of the Corvette." This manifests in the flaws that many kit cars suffer from, in that you are taking suspension components designed to operate at certain points in space relative to one another and putting them on another chassis in different locations. Things like CG to roll center relationships and other parameters will never be just right.....usually only some things can be brought in while others are just what you end up with. The older Corvette rear suspension design is also far inferior to the upper and lower control arm Cobra rear suspension. Corvette racers from back in the day have told me the main way they overcame the suspension shortcomings was to use springs as stiff as possible to minimize suspension travel and of course tires as wide as possible.

The Cheetah also had drum brakes, which says alot.

The Cheetah appeared to have quickly created a bad reputation among drivers due to the poor handling......and there were many accidents as a result.

[mr bruce]

http://www.conceptcarz.com/vehicle/c...9&iDNumID=6022

[mr bruce]

Still faster and rarer than a Cobra. Pal of mine asked the Old Grouch what he thought of the Cheetah, OG just said" I don't want to talk about it", and stomped away.

[Silverback51]

It was a car where form took a distant second place to function.

[DMXF]

Originally Posted by mr bruce

Still faster and rarer than a Cobra.

Bruce - I wouldn't necessarily jump to that conclusion. It would be interesting to see what would happen if you put a 60's specification big block Cobra with all the top shelf components that were developed for the cars (but many rarely, if ever, utilized) up against a comparable 60's spec Cheetah (not one with all modern enhancements and Dart engine, etc). On a road course the properly equipped Cobra may do better than you think.

The vintage racing scene may be one indicator. Bill Murray used to race CSX3032 often and it only has a few subtle modifications from stock - mainly for reliability. Meanwhile, Bill's main competitors, the Corvettes, have morphed into tube chassis sillouette cars like a modern Sprint Cup stock cars. Note that the SVRA supposedly states you are not supposed to run tube chassis, so the vette boys supposedly graft in pieces of original vette chassis here and there to create some imaginary justification. Suspensions on the vettes are all custom, fixing probably all the shortcomings of the original car, with different attachment points, widened track (pictures show how far the tires stick out from the sides requiring big flares), wider wheels, etc. The Vettes also use modern heads that flow probably 75cfm or more than the ported Cobra medium risers, with much more displacement (3032 is 427 vs I recall around 483 ci for the winning vette at a recent Watkins Glen race) and of course the resulting greater horsepower. At least one vette at the Glen definitely had bigger front tires. In spite of all the differences in authenticity of the cars and other handicaps on the Cobra (will get into that next), Bill's pole position qualifying time in '07 in 3032 at the Glen was about 2:04 vs '08's winning "vette" was 2:03! All that trickery in the vettes and they are only beating an essentially stock handicapped Cobra by about a second - think about that.

Now a bit more about the handicaps: The SVRA refused Bill's attempt to run webers on 3032, in spite of the fact they were developed for and homologated for the big block Cobra at one point. Also, SC cars came with 2x4 Holleys and a few years ago when Bill was going through the engine, he outfitted it with 660cfm dual quads. This setup made notably more power on the dyno and Bill was going to use it.....that is until the SVRA said he could only use that setup if he ran carb bodies with very small restricted approx 450cfm venturies - in spite of the fact that the cars came with 715cfm carbs! That killed the idea, so Bill put the single 850 Holley back on the old dual plane factory intake. The vettes all also run chin spoilers (which is not factory), yet they denied Bill's request to use one - even when Cobras raced with them as early as Bob Olthoff having fitted one in '64. I can't get into all the additional details, but I will add one important fact that the SVRA made Bill add around 200lb of lead ballast to his car so it wouldn't run away from the field!

Compound this by having some professional or semi-professional drivers in the vettes (at least one guy drives in races like the 24 hrs of Daytona) who aren't worried about "trading paint" with $100k stock cars vs a seven figure valued original body Cobra. Mac Archer also used to very successfully vintage race CSX3195 in more modern times. A properly set up Cobra is no slouch.

[mr bruce]

The speeds quoted were from the 60s ,185 at Road America, check the record books, any Cobras running those speeds then? 215 at Daytona, best I've heard a Cobra run there is 198, back in the day. The Cheetah was no slouch back then, even with it's drum brakes, and so called poor suspension/aero, and only 4-5 cars being run. Fergettabout comparing todays cars, too many variables. Deep enough pockets for development and an ace driver, I'll go Cheetah. There's a Cobra on everycorner, hell I leave mine out in the alley all winter.