Run and hide little cobra

[DMXF]

Skid pad alone doesn't mean much as far as overall handling, it's just one parameter. From some internet searching on the Cheetah, following are some interesting tidbits:

"did quite well on the skid pad, it was concluded that the lack of torsional rigidity was responsible for the erratic handling."

"The handling was never widely acclaimed, however, and it was obvious that Titus’ skill was making up for a lot.....A local Chevrolet dealer picked up the sponsorship, and Titus raced the car briefly, but never with any outstanding success."

"A well detailed Cheetah was a beautiful machine, although it had a number of critical drawbacks in either everyday transportation or control on a race track. "

"The Cheetah was never really intended to be a race car.
Like most other Chevy specials, it’s primary purpose was to make money.
But to make money, it had to be produced as economically as possible, which meant few specially machined or welded parts."

"Practically every piece in the drive train, from the radiator back to the rear hubs was right our of the Corvette." This manifests in the flaws that many kit cars suffer from, in that you are taking suspension components designed to operate at certain points in space relative to one another and putting them on another chassis in different locations. Things like CG to roll center relationships and other parameters will never be just right.....usually only some things can be brought in while others are just what you end up with. The older Corvette rear suspension design is also far inferior to the upper and lower control arm Cobra rear suspension. Corvette racers from back in the day have told me the main way they overcame the suspension shortcomings was to use springs as stiff as possible to minimize suspension travel and of course tires as wide as possible.

The Cheetah also had drum brakes, which says alot.

The Cheetah appeared to have quickly created a bad reputation among drivers due to the poor handling......and there were many accidents as a result.

[mr bruce]

http://www.conceptcarz.com/vehicle/c...9&iDNumID=6022

[mr bruce]

Still faster and rarer than a Cobra. Pal of mine asked the Old Grouch what he thought of the Cheetah, OG just said" I don't want to talk about it", and stomped away.

[Silverback51]

It was a car where form took a distant second place to function.

[DMXF]

Originally Posted by mr bruce

Still faster and rarer than a Cobra.

Bruce - I wouldn't necessarily jump to that conclusion. It would be interesting to see what would happen if you put a 60's specification big block Cobra with all the top shelf components that were developed for the cars (but many rarely, if ever, utilized) up against a comparable 60's spec Cheetah (not one with all modern enhancements and Dart engine, etc). On a road course the properly equipped Cobra may do better than you think.

The vintage racing scene may be one indicator. Bill Murray used to race CSX3032 often and it only has a few subtle modifications from stock - mainly for reliability. Meanwhile, Bill's main competitors, the Corvettes, have morphed into tube chassis sillouette cars like a modern Sprint Cup stock cars. Note that the SVRA supposedly states you are not supposed to run tube chassis, so the vette boys supposedly graft in pieces of original vette chassis here and there to create some imaginary justification. Suspensions on the vettes are all custom, fixing probably all the shortcomings of the original car, with different attachment points, widened track (pictures show how far the tires stick out from the sides requiring big flares), wider wheels, etc. The Vettes also use modern heads that flow probably 75cfm or more than the ported Cobra medium risers, with much more displacement (3032 is 427 vs I recall around 483 ci for the winning vette at a recent Watkins Glen race) and of course the resulting greater horsepower. At least one vette at the Glen definitely had bigger front tires. In spite of all the differences in authenticity of the cars and other handicaps on the Cobra (will get into that next), Bill's pole position qualifying time in '07 in 3032 at the Glen was about 2:04 vs '08's winning "vette" was 2:03! All that trickery in the vettes and they are only beating an essentially stock handicapped Cobra by about a second - think about that.

Now a bit more about the handicaps: The SVRA refused Bill's attempt to run webers on 3032, in spite of the fact they were developed for and homologated for the big block Cobra at one point. Also, SC cars came with 2x4 Holleys and a few years ago when Bill was going through the engine, he outfitted it with 660cfm dual quads. This setup made notably more power on the dyno and Bill was going to use it.....that is until the SVRA said he could only use that setup if he ran carb bodies with very small restricted approx 450cfm venturies - in spite of the fact that the cars came with 715cfm carbs! That killed the idea, so Bill put the single 850 Holley back on the old dual plane factory intake. The vettes all also run chin spoilers (which is not factory), yet they denied Bill's request to use one - even when Cobras raced with them as early as Bob Olthoff having fitted one in '64. I can't get into all the additional details, but I will add one important fact that the SVRA made Bill add around 200lb of lead ballast to his car so it wouldn't run away from the field!

Compound this by having some professional or semi-professional drivers in the vettes (at least one guy drives in races like the 24 hrs of Daytona) who aren't worried about "trading paint" with $100k stock cars vs a seven figure valued original body Cobra. Mac Archer also used to very successfully vintage race CSX3195 in more modern times. A properly set up Cobra is no slouch.

[mr bruce]

The speeds quoted were from the 60s ,185 at Road America, check the record books, any Cobras running those speeds then? 215 at Daytona, best I've heard a Cobra run there is 198, back in the day. The Cheetah was no slouch back then, even with it's drum brakes, and so called poor suspension/aero, and only 4-5 cars being run. Fergettabout comparing todays cars, too many variables. Deep enough pockets for development and an ace driver, I'll go Cheetah. There's a Cobra on everycorner, hell I leave mine out in the alley all winter.

[Power Surge]

Originally Posted by mr bruce

The speeds quoted were from the 60s ,185 at Road America, check the record books, any Cobras running those speeds then? 215 at Daytona, best I've heard a Cobra run there is 198, back in the day. The Cheetah was no slouch back then, even with it's drum brakes, and so called poor suspension/aero, and only 4-5 cars being run. Fergettabout comparing todays cars, too many variables. Deep enough pockets for development and an ace driver, I'll go Cheetah. There's a Cobra on everycorner, hell I leave mine out in the alley all winter.

Yes, the Cheetah is fast, but to me it's not impressive. It's a chassis with a body draped over it. Big deal. Anyone can make something light go fast. When I was in high school, my buddy had a T-bucket with a 600hp small block Chevy in it. It was fast. So what. It was a chassis with a motor. Doesn't take much talent to make a chassis with a high hp motor go fast.

As for the Cheetah doing 215 mph, I am going all in with a super huge BS. Even todays best supercars with 10 times the aerodynamic engineering and more hp struggle to hit 215 mph. There is so much involved with that kind of speed, such as proper ducting for the cooling system, years of downforce testing so as to not become an airborne projectile, etc etc. There is no way a Cheetah did 215mph unless it was dropped off cliff (and even then, it'd have to be a high cliff).

Also for the record, I also don't believe for a second that an open top Cobra roadster did 198mph either, so this is not based on Cobra bias.

And last night I spoke to a friend of mine who raced at Bridgehampton in the 60s along side Cheetahs. He said the saying at the track was, and I quote, "those Cheetahs are so fast because they are trying to outrun the ugly". He also mentioned that while incredibly fast down the main straight, they were easily passed on most turns by cars with half the hp.

[mr bruce]

Where'd the 215 number come from? the internet, so it must be true! (also heard 222 but didn't want to tho that one at you cats, really woulda got your shorts up yer cracks), As for the 198 Cobra number, that too is suspect. the owner of the 198 car is not here anylonger to defend himself , and I read a quote from him once that he didn't believe it himself. The Cobra factory didn't believe it either,but remember the Old Grouch is the PT Barnum of the automotive world, so anyway he could promote his product was fair game. So that all being said, how do you explain the official 185 Cheetah lap times from Road America, in the mid 60s. What were the Cobras running then praytell? and before you died in the wool Fomoco fans break out the tar+feathers, I build Cobras, all 4 bodystyles, fact is I like all cars. My current project between all the other stuff is resurecting the TVR/Griffith marque, All new jigs/fixtures for the frames/suspensions, etc, and new molds for the bodys.

[jwd]

Originally Posted by Power Surge

When I was in high school, my buddy had a T-bucket with a 600hp small block Chevy in it.

Unless you just graduated from high school this year and your friend was running a stroked, supercharged, nitrous added small block, I'm calling MAJOR BULLSH!T on that story. I've been building SB Chevy's for over 40 years and 600 HP with todays technology is barely possible but to do this years ago is an absolute crock of sh!t.


To those challenging Mr.Bruce, you may want to check his resume' before you let your alligator mouth write checks your hummingbird azz can't cash. He's been here over 10 years with 1800 posts and actually BUILDS cars, not buys rollers and thinks he's hot sh!t. Can you say that with your 2 years and 800 posts? I didn't think so.

[TButtrick]

Originally Posted by Power Surge

Also for the record, I also don't believe for a second that an open top Cobra roadster did 198mph either, so this is not based on Cobra bias.

So is this stuff fabricated? What did I miss?