COB series VIN ?

[nikbj68]

Cox 6036a?

[london]

If there is an owner of a COX 6036 out there somewhere, he must be hearing about this for the first time. The chassis number(s) is/are COB 6036

[Nedsel]

Originally Posted by london

If there is an owner of a COX 6036 out there somewhere, he must be hearing about this for the first time. The chassis number(s) is/are COB 6036

You are of course correct. The car was in Germany and, without referring back to the records, I assumed it was LHD. IT is RHD and a COB car!

[mickmate]

Some have an "R" added to denote replica.

[london]

Having now heard some of the detailed background to this case, I feel more sympathy for Steve Gray than the other party, whatever the law says.

[Nedsel]

Maybe sympathy isn't the right emotion. Steve knew when he bought the wrecked remains that the VIN had been legally transferred to a different car.

[Trevor Legate]

By coincidence I photographed the car being built at Brooklands during 2005. (see page 61 of the '40 Years' book.) But clearly I'm not in possession of all the facts.

But I do know that COB6036 (1964, as built in Thames Ditton) no longer exists

[FatBoy]

Originally Posted by Trevor Legate

But I do know that COB6036 (1964, as built in Thames Ditton) no longer exists

Having read the thread, I thought that although the original car was badly damaged, the rebuilt car contained the majority original parts. Is that not the case?

Paul

[london]

Paul

I understand that the car built by Steve Gray in 2005 does have the original chassis and various other original parts. The argument is whether you can recreate the original car when the title of that original car has already been transferred to a new body and chassis.

However as Trevor notes, it could be argued that neither the car based on the new body/ chassis built in 1983 nor the 2005 car that was built from original discarded 1964 parts are the original 1964 car.

Ned


As stated, each case has to be dealt with on its individual merits. However, I wonder whether this legal case means that the issue is less clear cut now than it was previously.



Mark

[FatBoy]

Hi Mark,

It doesn't appear that the "legal title" is disputable as that was transferred to the new car.
I'm not qualified to pass judgement on the legitimacy of any claim of "originality" by Mr. Gray, I was just joining the conversation as an interested bystander.
However, It would seem to me that, title aside, the old car has a greater claim to "originality" than then new one simply because it includes original parts, which presumably the new car doesn't.
Again, I'm not passing judgement, simply expressing a point of view that may or may not be valid.
Either way, the car I saw looked very nice with a lovely patina.

Paul

[london]

I too have no axe to grind on this one. An interesting topic though and as you say a lovely car!

[nikbj68]

A couple of possibilities spring to mind.
It`s possible that to 'scratch rebuild' may generate greater profit for the company charged with the task, and bear in mind that although Autokraft were at the time the official 'AC Cars', they were not the actual manufacturer of the original Cobra.
Pure supposition on my part.
Secondly, Steve Gray, now the current official AC Cars` manufacture/service department as AC Heritage, would not put a car on the road that wasn`t mechanically sound. Period.
If the integrity of the chassis was in doubt, I am 100% certain that he would not have built a Cobra around it, nor would he be happy to race that Cobra on a regular basis, as he has done since 2005 or thereabouts, I`m sure his first outing was the Oldtimer GP at the Nurburgring, where he was awarded 'Drive of the Day', going from 93rd to 53rd.
Regardless of legal issues, I have no doubt that the UK 6036 is mechanically perfect.

[london]

Steve Gray's COB 6036 will be one of 30 1962-66 Cobras running in the Shelby Cup at the Goodwood Revival in September, so nothing wrong with the chassis!

We meet a Goodwood Shelby Cup contender on the Brooklands banking

[Trevor Legate]

Well that's that then. End of the saga.

Is it just me or is this bit like living in the twilight zone....

[london]

Originally Posted by Trevor Legate

Well that's that then. End of the saga.

Hardly!

The AC Owners Club is currently taking legal advice on the principles of its Register policy and will be publishing a response in due course which could have an impact, at least on the UK side of the Pond, on what is or is not deemed to be 'original'.

[Nedsel]

I remain concerned about the legal implications of a policy that grants validity to a chassis based solely on the area where the VIN is stamped, even if the rest of it has been replaced or built around this area, and seems to allow no room for consideration of the legal ownership represented by the title that should accompany the chassis, which can tell a story about legal ownership that reaches well beyond anything a mute chunk of metal can imply. To ignore the legal chain of ownership in its entirety is madness.

[xb-60]

This is getting more interesting all the time. So what's the story on CSX2001?
Does this identity confusion/fuzziness/overlap happen with other cars (apart from some racecars where there can be understandable objectives)? I'm not really in the know anyway, but I can't recall this happening with cars like Ferrari 250GTOs or Alfa 8C2300s, to pick on two, or any other makes/models with similar or better exclusivity to Cobras.
Cheers,
Glen

[Trevor Legate]

Excuse me while I fall about laughing. I'll take my withering sarcasm elsewhere.

[Trevor Legate]

I'll drink to the above! Well said. The time is fast approaching when all Cobras will undergo the 'new broom' treatment (four new heads and two new handles) due to metal fatigue and countless other factors. The ravages of time will dictate that major components will have to be replaced before the owner finds a plie of ferrous oxide on the floor of his garage. If 'original' cars then appear built around a discarded ashtray, then madness will ensue. A proven, continuous chain of ownership must take precedent. This is how we end up with several race cars that are all the same car.

[A-Snake]

Originally Posted by Trevor Legate

I'll drink to the above! Well said. The time is fast approaching when all Cobras will undergo the 'new broom' treatment (four new heads and two new handles) due to metal fatigue and countless other factors. The ravages of time will dictate that major components will have to be replaced before the owner finds a plie of ferrous oxide on the floor of his garage. If 'original' cars then appear built around a discarded ashtray, then madness will ensue. A proven, continuous chain of ownership must take precedent. This is how we end up with several race cars that are all the same car.

+1 Well said.

Luckily only 427 Cobras can be built from discarded ashtrays