Popping my cherry at Pocono

[NJ2000R]

Klay,

Just start in the novice group, drive only as fast as you are comfortable, listen to the instructor, watch what others are doing, and learn the line and how to apex the turns. Most importantly, have fun doing it! It is very fun, and very addicting! I am by no means an expert, having driven only twice on the track, and I too was definately worried about damaging my car, but after you get out there, its amazing how comfortable and confident you get, both with driving, and with what the car can do. Throw out how you drive on the street, have an open mind, and you'll do fine. Also, dont be afraid to ask anyone and everyone (especially instructors) if you can ride with them....but be prepared to get thrown around a bit - its sorta scary at first, but you'll get over it

[Roscoe]

Steve,
Don't know how fast in the turns but Cranky or McMahon or Bill S should be able to tell you.

Roscoe

[John McMahon]

Again, this is a non competitive event, not a race, so they will stick you in a class based on your track experience. if you're a beginner, you'll have an instrcutor. Ithink they use instructors in a 'lead-follow' scenario.

The very experienced can run from 140 and up. I know a GT40 ran 237 there on the full course!

But as a newbie, run as fast or slow as you want! Just remember to use your mirrors and give the overtaking cars the proper 'point-by' in the passing zones. Listen carefully where those points are.

Anywhere from 80 to 120 would be the norm for newbies. And remember that on the banks to keep your speeds up! There is no need to lift like on a normal flat turn.

[RACER X #99]

Steve,
Don't be real concerned about hurting your car ar Pocono. Just drive with you head and not your ego. When the guy with the 4 cyl rice burner passes you it is because he has more experience on track than you do. DO NOT try to catch him. Drive at a pace where you feel comfortable. Remember there are no Trans-Am or Nascar scouts out there looking for the next rookie of the year.
You will get faster as you get more track time but you will not be breaking any track records the first time out. Just drive at a nice even pace and you will bring it home in one piece.
BTW on the Nascar part of the track you will be able to hit 120+ and in some of the corners you will be down to 30-
Have a nice day and perhaps I may see you there.
Roger (cranky)

[klayfish]

Thanks for all of the encouragement, I really appreciate it.

Roger,
Believe me, as you can probably tell by my posts, the ego will be laying dead on the side of the road somewhere long before I get to the track. I don't care if a Hyundai with more stickers than horsepower passes me, I'm driving within my abilities. I let it all hang out at my autocrosses. I'm a rookie at this, and have no problems looking for help.

My biggest concern is the car. Like I mentioned, it does some very weird things at autocrosses. I've had it checked several times by a professional builder. There is nothing wrong with it, it's just the limitations and characteristics of the 4 link Mustang rear I have. In autocross, the car tends to get loose from mid-corner through exit. I don't mind that and I've caught it each and every time, but it's so unpredictable. I just don't know what it's going to do and when. That's what I'm really afraid of. Putting the car into a corner at Pocono (even at greatly reduced speed from everyone else), and having it do something I'm not ready for.

I'll definitely be using a lot of mirror. But I'm also assuming, and hoping, that others in my run group will be like me. New, nervous, and slow.

Steve

[wgk]

klayfish,
If you are using either solid upper and lower rear arms or the stock donor setup on the FFR the handling is exactly what you are describing. Here is the answer- Solid lower control arms (anyones, makes no difference) and stock uppers. Ask Gordon Levy, what he doesn't know about FFR handling aint worth knowing. This of course is with the four link, I have no experience with the 3-link. Come to Pocono and if you can't get a set of solid lowers in time I'll bring a spare set I have and we'll change yours out in about 30 minutes and you won't believe the difference.
Let me or Roscoe know if you are coming.
bill

[klayfish]

Bill,
Thanks for the offer. I'm thinking about exactly that. I talked to a lot of people over the last few days about it. What I'm thinking about it this. I'm also signed up for the Saturday Pocono event in August. I'm thinking about cancelling for next Saturday, getting my money back, and using that money to help pay for the 3-link rear. EVERYONE I've heard from says the 3-link makes an amazing difference in the cars' handling. It makes the car very predictable and handle terrific. Dave Smith offered to sell me one at their cost when I saw him at Carlisle. I'm trying to find out if I can still take him up on that offer, because it's an expensive kit. But I think its' the best way to go. With the standard 4 link I've got now, it's more than a handful when pushed hard. My autox runs are an adventure, and that's at 40 mph. I want to get the handling "bugs" worked out of the car, and get it where I'm confident in it. I've already changed the power rack it had to the Flaming River, toyed around with the alignment settings, and as soon as my parts arrive, am changing to a 3.73 rear (from my current 2.73) with a posi unit. I think the 3-link should be the last piece of the puzzle.

I want to be smart about this and do it right. I am definitely, 100% planning to attend the August event at Pocono, because I'm dying to try a road racing school, and it is extremely dissapointing for me to back out of next weekends' event. Even if for some bizarre reason I haven't changed my 4 link, I'll still be there in August, and ask for help. But I think I'd enjoy it more if I was totally confident in my car, and I want to try to get it straightend out. Then I can drive without worrying at every corner what the car is going to do.

I'm going to think it over long and hard over the weekend, and decide by Monday. I'm pretty sure I can cancel up to 48 hours prior to the event and still get a refund. I'll probably call Gordon Levy too. Is he the ultimate FFR handling guru, or are there others too?

Steve

[Terry]

Hi Steve

The biggest change that I felt on my FFR with the 4 link in it was when I switched to race tires. The car was a lot more predictable with the street tires on. With the street tires on you push the limits of the tires, not the suspension.

I suggest that you attend the July event at Pocono as it's the North course (slower speeds) before the August event (Long course) to get the feel of a road course.

Just my $.02
Terry

[klayfish]

Terry,
Thanks, I've definitely thought about that. I raced my last autox car ('86 MR2) on both street and race tires, so I'm ready for the difference they will make. I know the race tires will make the limits higher and the over the limit reaction less predictable. But even on street tires, it's just the characteristics of that 4 link that are the problem. It just doesn't handle twisties well. I know that if I go in July, I'll be constantly thinking about it and won't be able to concentrate and/or enjoy myself, unless I drive at 5/10ths.

I ordered my 3 link from FFR this afternoon, and they said it'll be here in 2-3 weeks. It'll go right in the car, and then I'll be all ready for the August run. No excuses. I know the August event is faster, but I'll still be in the novice group and won't go any faster than I'm comfortable.

Steve

[a427sc]

Steve

Your overthinking this by a mile. The car will not be a problem for you unless it is so unstable that you can't drive it on the street. ANY car that can be driven on the street will be more than adequate for your first track event. CALM DOWN, quit the crap, and get some seat time in. YOU WILL NOT CRASH!!! Some benefits include getting over the first time willies, setting a base for improvements (both in the car and in you), and becoming familiar. I run my 550 hp in the rain at times, just for seat time and familiarety. I bet it's a lot worse than yours will be.

SO GO BREAK THAT CHERRY. THE FIRST TIME IS NEVER THE BEST, BUT REMEMBERED THE MOST.

McFEZ

[klayfish]

McFez,
Hell yeah, I'm overthinking it way too much. But once the wheels started turning in my head, and I ran another autox event with the car, I thought hmmm not good. Also hearing from other FFR owners with 4 link rears was discouraging. It's not that "unstable", but I am not at all comfortable with it when pushed. I definitely want to get seat time with the car. But taking the money I would have spent on the July event will allow me to buy the 3 link, so I can have it for the August run in Pocono, which I will go to no matter what. Otherwise, I'd have to go without it for quite a while. I know I sound like a pathetic wimp, but hey, I've gotta make choices. I only have so much money to spread around, and I want to make the car right for me.

I'm finding after 3 months of Cobra ownership that it easy to spend lots of money very quickly on them. I can see where you can get yourself into real debt with these cars.

[RACER X #99]

Steve,
Much safer running the North course this coming week than waiting to August for the Big track. The full course is really no place for a first timer. Way too much speed for inexperienced driver.
Really fast first turn and another fast straight. Unless you like lots of high speed driving and very few corners, stay away from the big track until you get some seat time.

McFez, 550 hp? No wonder you blow away my 385 hp beginner motor.

Cranky,
MUST GET TO TH GLEN,MUST GET TO THE GLEN

[a427sc]

Just a little "literary licence". Sort of like watch'n the news, a little strech here and there for effect.

MF

[klayfish]

Alright,
After listening to everyone, and talking to Joe from PDA on the phone, I've made up my mind.

I'll be there next Saturday. Joe convinced me that the road course is much different than autox. In autox, I'm turning left/right/left constantly and throwing the weight around. The 4 link just can't keep up. The sweeping turns on a road course will be much different. I'm just going to drive at a pace that's comfortable for me.

So, thanks for everyones patience with me, and sorry for my indecisiveness. I'm very much looking forward to the track time.

Steve

[NJ2000R]

good choice steve! see ya there!

Ken

[Roscoe]

Glad you could make it Steve.
Roscoe

[klayfish]

Before I even try to figure out how to do it, does anyone know if camcorders mounted to the rollbar are allowed at the school?

Also, for those that have been there before, what should I bring with me (besides the obvious....lunch, water...)?

Steve

[Roscoe]

Steve,
I tend to overdo things but this is my initial list:

Quart of oil
brake fluid
belt
windex
paper towels
rags
basic tools
tire pressure gauge
cooler
folding chair
shorts & t shirt (I'm not wearing long sleeves and pants all day)

That's about it for now but I'm sure there will be more,
Roscoe

[RACER X #99]

Steve ,
You will need an approved camera mount for your camera. I have one I can lend you and if you like I will bring it with me. I won't be doing any laps at Pocono, Just hanging out and maybe a few photos.

RD(cranky)

[klayfish]

Cranky,
That would be great, thank you very much. I kind of guessed you would need some type of approved device. My wife isn't coming, so I want to be able to tape some of my runs.

Steve