road race shocks?

[coyled]

Road racers only, I am thinking about changing out my pro shocks and going to a better road race shock. Any first hand experience with penske's, koni's, bilsteins? Any suggestions? They probably need to be fully adjustable. Scott

[Morris]

Are the shocks you have now adjustable..... Bump and Rebound????

[coyled]

No, they are not adjustable. However, pro shocks has been good about making bump and rebound adjustmants. I do have to pull them and send them to Georgia for adjustments. Pro shocks says that the shock I am running is a high quality shock. They make a double adjustable but say they are no better than what I am running other than the easier adjustability. I am still curious as to what others are running. Scott

[Morris]

Scott

We just installed some adjustable Pro Shocks on my brothers car and it made a big difference...... and especially depending on the spring rate..... and that changes all of the time.... until you get the chassis working the way it is suppose to .....

Is it worth it to have Double Adjustable shocks .... Yes.... if you are trying to go fast... if you just cruising.... it doesn't matter.... as long as you got the shock and spring matched.... it even made a difference for his crusing mode...

He had the standard Pro shock and it was to stiff for the springs he was running.... but when we changed over to 17" wheels we stiffened the springs and will have to adjust the shocks again...

Things never stay the same.....and I would say change is good...
if you're looking for speed and time

Morris

[blubyu2]

I went with the carrera's from VPM. Not cheep but they work really well http://www.vintageperformancemotorcars.com/



Greg

[rdorman]

I have pretty much always beleived that it is hard to beat a set of double adjustable Konis (any one here about the new 6 way adjustable Konis!). I recall Richard Hudgins not that long ago saying something to the effect that chassis tuning is to a large extent all shock.

Don't just order a set that will fit. Call a good shop (such as True Choice Motorsports 1-800-388-8783) and talk to one of their shock experts. They can set the Konis up just for you, dyno them, revalve, rebuild what ever you need. Last set of shocks you will ever, ever have to buy.

The feel of a properly set up set of shocks is a thing of joy!

Watch the budget. It is possible to wrap up $6000 in a complete set up. Of course you can do it for a fraction of that as well.

Have fun!

Rick

[Bart Carter]

Levy Racing (near you) is now a Koni dealer. He did the Koni's on my car and should be able to give you a good starting setup.

[Curt C.]

The good ones, Koni, bilstein not to mention Penske are so expensive - yikes. They definitely make a difference though. I run a non-adjustable Carrera. Took a while to get it valved right, but it works good for me.

[Ant]

With my limited experience, and my latest cobra being a very purpose built vehicle, I got talked into a set of custom Bilstein gas shocks which have to go back to the shop for valving adjustments, I wanted Koni double adjustable shocks and was told they are finicky and not worth it........well BS!

The advantage of Bilstein, Koni, and very expensive Penske, Ohlins shocks are they are very good shocks and much better for serious racing than other cheaper brands, and if I set up my Bilsteins for the springs etc and dry track conditions thats all good they should perform very well for serious times on slicks, but if I need to make an adjustment for weather or different track conditions etc, I cant unless I send them back to the shop, that is where Koni comes in if you can get your valving in the middle of the range then you can fine tune with the double adjusters.

So I have learned it is to get the shock to cater for your application, and the serious track guys " HERE IN NZ"especially single seaters etc tend to run either Koni Ohlins etc for the easy trackside adjustment factor, but some of their entry level Formula Ford cars use Bilstein. The difference between race Bilsteins and Konis was $1000 but I reckon a bit of time and on my local tracks I should be able to get a good result as my car isnt exactly a F1 car!!
One point though I think on car adjustable Bilsteins can be had at plenty of $$$$$,

[RICK LAKE]

coyled Scott the guy that responded in #2,4 is one of the best suspension guys out there. He has the proof and records to back this up. He has done lectures at R&G. The info was right on the money. He explained basic on spring weight, ridehieght, wieghting of the car, how and where to move the wieght around, Acherman angles, and bumpsteer. His 4 hour lecture cost me $600.00+ dollars and worth every penny. You know that what you setup for the track and racing is no good for street driving unless you have the SMOOTHEST roads in your state. I am running QA1 and increase my front springs by 150lbs. I am running an all aluminium motor in my ERA. If you are really serious about doing this and go out and buy roadracing tires, You will need a good temp reading gauge for tire temps, good air pressure gauge for hot temps, and a HRP race sheet for all the other stuff to help you make adjustments. Alignments and bumpsteering are the most important things and change from track to track for roadracing. This is just like the nascar guys. We just don't have a large team for all the adjustments. There are a couple of suspension books out there to give you a basic understanding of how and what to do to make the car handle better. Start with getting the weight in all 4 corners none with you in full race mode. Full or 3/4 tank of gas in the backend. Gas is 7.5 lbs a gallon. Get the ride height set, an alignment print out of the car, and start from there. You want about a 48-52% front to back ratio. I thought 50/50 was ideal, I was wrong. I shopped hard for the best deals on the shocks and springs. I beat the Summit price with both parts again there shock only price. Dirttrack guys will give you a better price. My car went 3 seconds faster last year in the roadcourse with this change to the suspension. The nose stop plowing and diving into the turns. The tracking was flat and smoother. I am working on the bumpsteering next. I have thanked Morris for his ideas and help with setting up a car. I have 28+ years of wrenching and repairing cars. This is a whole different level. Rick L Ps I was told by some people that the spring rate was TOO HIGH. The guys racing are another 50 to 175 lbs more than me with spring rates. Some have ground effects, some don't. My ERA is 2705lbs with 1/2 tank of gas, minus my fat @$$. We are not going there!!! Scott Morris and his PRO driver Steve had there car on the cover of KitCar mag as the fastest cobra. They forgot to say one of the best every built. The engineering is top line PRO work. I have watch them race this car. I wonder if Steve is even awake when driving. Very smooth driver, almost machine like, and his hair is perfect.

[COBRA427]

RICK LAKE

Shouldn't have let the cat out of the bag that Steve is napping while on the track, Morris is going to freak, also I saw you admiring Steve and he does have perfect hair, and quite frankly, I hate him for it.

[scottj]

Scott,

I'm running a Dynamic 4-way w/piston bleed and piggyback cannisters from Newman-Haas. Prior to these I was running the non-adj Pro Shocks and, like you, I had them back and forth to Georgia a couple of times.
The guy that runs the shock program at Newman-Haas lives nearby so he came over and took all the required measurements off the car to plug into their software. At that point, feeling really good about my decision to go with N-H, I asked him how much quicker he thought I'd go with the new package. He responded that I might not go any quicker than before, that my current package might have been just what the car needed, but without adjusters I had no way of knowing. The idea with the 4-ways was to get as close as possible with the software and then have 4 variables to test on the track. Most likely I'd run out of sweeps on one or more adjustments and then he would revalve them and I'd test again. Usually, using the software to set up the car, 2-3 revalves would be required to get the package right. But, we are talking about very fine adjustments on a chassis that is so flexible that it can mask those adjustments.
Pro Shocks are known for having very little low speed compression and if you switch I think you will find that any other shock has more LSC. Personally, I'd go with the adjustable shock that comes with the most available tech support, which is why I went with the Dynamics.

Another piece of advice I received, that I found quite amusing, was from the guy that builds all the Ohlins for the top national guys in dirt Late Model racing. It went something like this: " At a World of Outlaw or Lucas Oil event, if you are 1-2 tenths off the pace I'll build you a set of $4K Ohlins, if you are 5-6 tenths off just make sure your shocks hold oil and they go up and down..."

Scott

[Jerry Clayton]

Scottj

that statement pretty well sumd it up about a lot of areas in racing. Corey and I have went to a few races with a guy that runs a BA/A drag car--he has run in the LOW 7 second range and 197 mph. We have tried to help him get into the 6s and 200mph but he resists any changes---"I was told not to move or change that!" He has a consistant wheel slippage in the first second of the run and I wanted to raise the front end( he is actually illegal now by being too low) and changing some bar settings. we did alter timing advance and some shock settings which moved him to the 3rd quickest 60 ft time at recent NHRA race. 1.04sec. His refusal to allow changes has caused us to stop helping him as it is a waste of our time---

So for people wanting to go faster/quicker----if you are close, the $$$$ rate goes up---if you are quite aways from optimun-gains are cheaper--its not a straght line graph $$$vs performance

Have you run the LS7 yet???

Jerry

[RICK LAKE]

Jerry Clayton You didn't break the golden rule. DRIVERS, drive. OWNERS,own. Mechanics make the car run and handle the best they can. You just change the car and say nothing. You know what the car needs. The other 2 are benchracers and heros when the car wins, you get the crap when the car faultures. Been there, had it done too many times to me. This is a good reason to carry a large breaker bar or a long 1/2" snap on ratchet. Both have never lost a fight yet. Rick L.

[Jerry Clayton]

Rick

Owner/Driver----bought a 600k transporter rig for this year--I thought things were maybe looking up---he even let me drive it some(actually I just got in the drivers seat while he was in thr restroom at the truck stop)

Spoke with him several times during the off season about he had to let us do more so he could concentrate on driving----he changed the cam( good move) but on the first run it didn't run strong and at the other end he was f cam--found rocker assy fell off an intake.

Insists on doing valves, springs, jetting himself---doesn't have egt or a/f sensors or weather station---but did buy new set of carbs

Tries to adjust and leave from other guys lite--hard to do if other car has 2sec + index

Got discussed and stopped going with him---wish him well but

[RICK LAKE]

Jerry Clayton Jerry I have heard this story 10 times and had it happen 3 times to me. The more the owner or driver start to play around with the car the slower it goes. ARROGENT, SELF CENTERED, LOADED(money), and TOO STUPID TO LISTEN AND LEARN. It's a no win deal. If you want give me his number, I can call and tell him what a dumb@$$ looks like. He just has to look in the mirror. There is a plus side, you don't have to see all YOUR HARD WORK screwed up any more.Less stress on you. Rick L My BP went down 20 points after leaving my ex best friend and a race car that should have gone 9'0s end up running mid 11.0's with a hemi no less. I was hoping for the motor to blowup. The car didn't deserve that faith.

[Jerry Clayton]

Rick

Over the years my cars have held records in top fuel, funny car, pro stock, numerous wins , track records, special awards, etc. he had the equipment to set records and dominate comp eliminator. Next week on the NHRA.com pages two of my cars are in the running for favorite dragster of the seventies---competing against myself!!!!!look in my gallery at the photo called nite race---


Jerry