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01-31-2004, 03:48 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Corinth,
NY
Cobra Make, Engine: Antique & Collectable 302, C-4,Ford 9 inch
Posts: 251
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Not Ranked
brake booster
Brent- Thanks for thaking the lead and getting us our own forum!
Here's our first official thread: What kind of power brake booster are guys running in their A & C, and how did you fit it in. I am concerened about room near the wheel well. I saw an A & C with a Geo brake booster stufffed in between the wheel well and the firewall. Is their room to put a brake set-up low near the frame?Any suggestions from the experienced out their would be appreciated.
Jer
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02-01-2004, 06:50 AM
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Club Cobra Member
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Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Macedonia,
OH
Cobra Make, Engine: A&C 427S/C, 351W, T5
Posts: 513
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Not Ranked
Jer: Not sure what Model mine is. I got it from John York. I believe it is a Mustang or Falcon unit. Anyway length is a problem. I had to cut a box shaped hole in the front wheel well in order for the end of the master cylinder to fit. I then got an old truck tire inner tube and cut a square from it and siliconed it to the inside of the wheel well to protect the end of the master cylinder. Give John a call and I'm sure he will give you the model number.
Jim
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02-01-2004, 06:51 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Fairfield, NJ, USA,
NJ
Cobra Make, Engine: A & C, 351W, Tremec 3550. Exiled Member: Club Cranky
Posts: 5,897
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Not Ranked
Build site at http://www.priveye.com/cobra.htm
I have no booster. I use a Tilton Racing floor mounted pedal set with two master cylinders (front/rear). I've got 11" rotors all around. Remember that the car only weights in at 2200/2300 lbs. Does not take alot to stop it.
The booster setup, in my opinion, is overkill. It is hard to install and maintain the master cyl.
Roscoe
__________________
Roscoe
"Crisis occurs when women and cattle get excited!"....James Thurber
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02-01-2004, 11:26 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Corinth,
NY
Cobra Make, Engine: Antique & Collectable 302, C-4,Ford 9 inch
Posts: 251
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Not Ranked
Jim- Thanks for your reply, I will call John York.
Roscoe - Thanks for the info, I will look at the Tilton's. Did you mount the master cylinder on the frame, or the firewall?
Jer
Last edited by jerry w; 02-01-2004 at 11:30 AM..
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02-01-2004, 12:56 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Owasso,
OK
Cobra Make, Engine: SMC, 468 BB. 2X4's
Posts: 24
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Not Ranked
Jerry W- I had alot of problems with brakes. I finally ended up with a power brake booster and MC from a late Ford Probe. Use the newer year, it has a bigger MC bore 15/16. WK
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02-01-2004, 01:49 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Corinth,
NY
Cobra Make, Engine: Antique & Collectable 302, C-4,Ford 9 inch
Posts: 251
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Neutral
geeman.6,
Thanks for the info, I will check out my local salvage yard and see if that unit will fit in the space I am planning.
Jer
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02-01-2004, 02:54 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Winter Park,
Fl
Cobra Make, Engine: Hunter with a 4.6 supercharged
Posts: 690
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Not Ranked
We used a booster and master from, get this, a caravan. It is very thin and and the van master is has a good size bore for the 4 wheel disc brake set up on our car.
Forgive I do not remember the size right this moment.
Bruce Edwards
Gemini Motorcars Inc.
__________________
Bruce Edwards
Gemini Motorcars Inc.
http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-GeminiMotorcars
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02-01-2004, 04:45 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Corinth,
NY
Cobra Make, Engine: Antique & Collectable 302, C-4,Ford 9 inch
Posts: 251
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Not Ranked
Bruce!
Now that sounds cool! I am going to start looking under the hoods of every caravan in the neighborhood! Really appreciate your input and the comments form everyone!
Jer
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02-01-2004, 04:47 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Winter Park,
Fl
Cobra Make, Engine: Hunter with a 4.6 supercharged
Posts: 690
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Not Ranked
Jerry,
No problem. We used one from a late 80's as I recall. I can double check in the morning if you really want a firm year.
Let me know.
Bruce Edwards
Gemini Motorcars Inc.
__________________
Bruce Edwards
Gemini Motorcars Inc.
http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-GeminiMotorcars
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02-01-2004, 04:51 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Corinth,
NY
Cobra Make, Engine: Antique & Collectable 302, C-4,Ford 9 inch
Posts: 251
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Not Ranked
Bruce,
Late 80's is enough for me to go on, I will start opening van hoods and measure!
Jer
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02-01-2004, 04:55 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Winter Park,
Fl
Cobra Make, Engine: Hunter with a 4.6 supercharged
Posts: 690
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Not Ranked
Jer,
If I remember correctly it is a Bosh part.
__________________
Bruce Edwards
Gemini Motorcars Inc.
http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-GeminiMotorcars
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02-02-2004, 04:43 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Sparrowbush,
NY
Cobra Make, Engine: A&C 351W, C4
Posts: 407
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Not Ranked
Booster
Jerry,
I have dual wilwood master cylinders with a wilwood pedal setup with a balance bar. I find that it is hard braking and I was considering converting to a power setup. However, before I do that, once the weather warms up, I want to fine tune the system that I have. When running manual brakes it is important to have the correct pedal to rod to pivot ratio for greatest coefficiency of energy. The distance from where the MC rod attaches to the pedal to the pedal end should be 5X the distance from the pedal pivot point to where the MC attaches.
I also want to make some adjustments to the balance bar as I don't believe I am anywhere near the correct bias. Rule of thumb is 75% Fronts and 25% rears.
Regarding a power setup, with 4 wheel 11" discs, A&C recommends using a booster and MC from an "84 Vette. Using this unit will necessitate cutting a relief hole in the inner fender to allow clearance for the front of the MC. With some fiberglass material you can enclose the relief hole to prevent dirt from being flung up and onto the MC.
Also, according to Joe at A&C, if you use the '84 Vette setup, you will not need to use a proportioning valve as the vette MC has an integral proportioning valve.
Joe told me that some guys have used a booster and MC from an '87 to '89 Mercury Tracer and that it fits without having to cut the inner fender. However, Joe also informed me that they (A&C) have not tested the Tracer setup.
Tony
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02-02-2004, 06:45 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Glastonbury,
CT
Cobra Make, Engine:
Posts: 1,387
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Not Ranked
Jerry,
I have a custom Tilton master cylinder set-up from Colman Racing.
I purchased thier clutch / brake pedal box mount set-up with 3 Tilton master cylinders. The pedal set-up came with an adjustable balance bar for front and rear and pedal depth adjustment. The prices were very good. However, inorder to get the pieces to fit on top of the foot box in my A&C, I had to have custom mounts made. I also purchased the original style fluid tanks and used the remote fill parts that came with the cylinder kits.
--Mike
Brake Set-Up:
http://www.clubcobra.com/photopost/s...cat=500&page=3
Last edited by mj_duell; 02-02-2004 at 06:48 AM..
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02-02-2004, 06:48 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Fairfield, NJ, USA,
NJ
Cobra Make, Engine: A & C, 351W, Tremec 3550. Exiled Member: Club Cranky
Posts: 5,897
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Not Ranked
The master cylinders are connected to the pedal set with remote reservoirs. Third one is for the hydraulic clutch.
Roscoe
__________________
Roscoe
"Crisis occurs when women and cattle get excited!"....James Thurber
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02-02-2004, 06:57 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Winter Park,
Fl
Cobra Make, Engine: Hunter with a 4.6 supercharged
Posts: 690
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Not Ranked
Jerry,
I got in the shop this morning to check the master/booster set up we used. It is from a 96-2000 caravan not 80's. Sorry about the mix up. Getting older sucks.
__________________
Bruce Edwards
Gemini Motorcars Inc.
http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-GeminiMotorcars
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02-02-2004, 02:06 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Corinth,
NY
Cobra Make, Engine: Antique & Collectable 302, C-4,Ford 9 inch
Posts: 251
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Not Ranked
Bruce- thanks for taking the trouble to look up the year and model of the van for the booster, much appreciated.
Mike- went to your build site, wow! neat set up on top of the footbox! That solves the space problem I have been thinking about.
Roscoe-I like your set-up also, looks clean and relatively easy to install.
Tony- Thanks for taking the time to share the specs on the brake system. As a neophyte each step in the build brings a new lesson. As always, your comments are valued.
It is amazing how many different brake set-ups are used out there on the same car! Much thanks to all who have responded, you have all now given me options for my build that I know are viable. It is great not having to " guess" on my own what might work, or not.
Jer
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02-02-2004, 02:10 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Fairfield, NJ, USA,
NJ
Cobra Make, Engine: A & C, 351W, Tremec 3550. Exiled Member: Club Cranky
Posts: 5,897
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Not Ranked
You think brake setups are different wait till you get to the steering column!!!
Roscoe
__________________
Roscoe
"Crisis occurs when women and cattle get excited!"....James Thurber
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02-02-2004, 03:28 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Winter Park,
Fl
Cobra Make, Engine: Hunter with a 4.6 supercharged
Posts: 690
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Not Ranked
Double what Roscoe said!!!
Just take a look at our demo car pictures and check out how we had to go over the top of the valve cover and power steering reservoir to link up with the shaft off the rack!!
__________________
Bruce Edwards
Gemini Motorcars Inc.
http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-GeminiMotorcars
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02-03-2004, 04:45 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Glastonbury,
CT
Cobra Make, Engine:
Posts: 1,387
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Not Ranked
Thanks Jerry.
Actually I will pass your comps to the guy who did the brake box work. His name is Pat Scarpulla. He is a great guy with a beautiful A&C. He also has over three decades of machining experience! He asked me to pass along that he is available to make custom parts for anyone that needs them. He is retired so he has the time and his prices are so low I have to force him to take more money. Wait until you see the aluminum bulkhead finishing rings he turned for my AN hoses! He also just brought over custom made roll bar mounts that will take the stress of a roll over and they were resized for a Shell Valley bar.
Quote:
You think brake setups are different wait till you get to the steering column!!!
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How True!.
Roscoe, I went with IDIDIT steering as you suggested. I haven't install it yet, but with the 428 headers, it's going to be tight. I may have to fabricate my own bracket for the foot box in order to mount it. However, I am very pleased with the IDIDIT parts. Thanks!
--Mike
Last edited by mj_duell; 02-03-2004 at 04:53 AM..
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02-03-2004, 05:57 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Fairfield, NJ, USA,
NJ
Cobra Make, Engine: A & C, 351W, Tremec 3550. Exiled Member: Club Cranky
Posts: 5,897
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Not Ranked
Mike,
What I did with my Ididit shaft is take a piece of flat stock around 6" square by 3/8" to 1/2" thick. We welded on a piece of steel pipe, about 3-4" long, which is about 3/8" to 1/2" thick. Drilled and tapped the pipe for set screws and bolted this to the top of the footbox. The shaft comes through the firewall and is held by the adjustable mount from Ididit. It then goes through the pipe and is held in place there.
Really pretty simple.
Roscoe
__________________
Roscoe
"Crisis occurs when women and cattle get excited!"....James Thurber
Last edited by Roscoe; 02-03-2004 at 06:02 AM..
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