What would it take?

[DWRAT]

What all would it take to install this http://www.fordracingparts.com/parts...KeyField=11832 in place of my 302/347?

What parts will need to be replaced and what about motor mount locations?

[LMH]

Headers are going to be in a different place. (higher)
Larry

[mikiec]

New 4 into 4 headers from FFR, New motor mounts, location is the same.

I would suggest new Clutch assembly.

Mike

[Danr55]

That looks like a FE block. That means a new bell housing and a plate mount for the transmission. Probably need to shorten the drive shaft.

[Karl Bebout]

Why would you want to spend only $9K when you could drop $15-18K on a Roush, and have all the related "fun". As for the headers, I'm not sure the FFR units would give the needed breathing. You'd probably be better off going with the brand Greg put on his beast. Tain't cheap, but sure do the job.

[madmaxx]

Resale value

Originally Posted by Karl Bebout

Why would you want to spend only $9K when you could drop $15-18K on a Roush, and have all the related "fun". As for the headers, I'm not sure the FFR units would give the needed breathing. You'd probably be better off going with the brand Greg put on his beast. Tain't cheap, but sure do the job.

[madmaxx]

Actually by the time you throw on the billet pulley's, brackets, alternator, starter, carburator, billet aluminium spark plug wire holders, fuel pump etc tack on another $1K so now you are at $10K. In addition when you look at the individual components inside the block (crank, pistons, etc tack on another 500) An unpolished Roush 427 can be had for $13,500 with a Dart Block.

Still a savings but Ford has had their share of issues with their crate engines. You get what you pay for. No doubt when you resale, a Roush will always fetch a higher price and in this market may be the difference in selling and not selling the car.

[madmaxx]

doesnt come with the 8 quart oil pan either that the Roush come with and an individual dyno sheet.

[lovehamr]

DW, I believe that the only things that you would have to change are the headers. It's still a Windsor block so the BH and MMts are the same. Because the deck height of the 351 based block is higher than the 302 based block (the reason for the header change) you may also have to think about carb to hood clearance. I'm not saying that it won't fit, quite the opposite in fact, however you might not want to start out with a funnel web intake; if you know what I mean.

Steve

P.S. for those advocating Roush engines, remember that there are quite a few nightmare stories around about their warrantee issues as well.

[Danr55]

Steve, That looks like a FE block. Is that wrong?

[mikiec]

It is a 351 block. I have been drooling over that since Ford announced it.

Mike

[LMH]

It's a Windsor block. Nice block too as it's 4.125" bore capacity and four bolt center mains too!
Larry

[Fitz]

Hey Gordon may have my old set of custom headers/pipes and pipes from my old big block. Sounded nasty; had to wear ear plugs

[mikiec]

That old system of yours woke up people sleeping in the space station. I loved it, even if it did hurt.

Mike

[Excaliber]

Seems to me you can get a "real" 427, in various configurations, for about the same price. 351 out to 427 is all but maxed out. The LONG stroke and small bore are like the design thinking of a 428. Relying on stroke for a large part of the displacement.

The "real" 427 design was classic race thinking, big bore, short stroke. Most the of the great engines of yester year and today follow that principle, "over square", big bore relative to their short stroke. Porsche being a classic example, there are many others.

The small bore will not allow for big valves, compared to a "real" 427.

[madmaxx]

Going from a small block configuration to big block would require more than just headers. I imagine the bellhousing, motor mounts, etc would require replacement, from a scratch build then yes price is the same. I will never own another engine without an hydraulic roller cam. Get tired of playing the oil addiditve game.

Originally Posted by Excaliber

Seems to me you can get a "real" 427, in various configurations, for about the same price. 351 out to 427 is all but maxed out. The LONG stroke and small bore are like the design thinking of a 428. Relying on stroke for a large part of the displacement.

The "real" 427 design was classic race thinking, big bore, short stroke. Most the of the great engines of yester year and today follow that principle, "over square", big bore relative to their short stroke. Porsche being a classic example, there are many others.

The small bore will not allow for big valves, compared to a "real" 427.

[Excaliber]

More labor involved, parts requirements to drop in an FE may not be a large factor. In this case, new hearders anyway, personally I'd go with a new clutch as well for either setup. Motor mount expense is not a big factor, getting the motor mounts installed or modified could be an issue. Get it right and you could likely keep your current drive shaft. Certainly more "brain work" required. Oil pan, on either engine, could also be an issue. Road racing pan could set you back $500 easy enough so in either case it's not to be taken lightly.

A rare bird, FFR with an FE, you don't see those much. Re-sale value increase alone may justify the extra cash.

[DWRAT]

Originally Posted by mikiec

It is a 351 block. I have been drooling over that since Ford announced it.

Mike

Mike,
Maybe Brucie could hook us up on a 2 motor order deal????
We know he has a in at Ford somehow.

What do you say Brucie?

[LMH]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

Seems to me you can get a "real" 427, in various configurations, for about the same price. 351 out to 427 is all but maxed out. The LONG stroke and small bore are like the design thinking of a 428. Relying on stroke for a large part of the displacement.

The "real" 427 design was classic race thinking, big bore, short stroke. Most the of the great engines of yester year and today follow that principle, "over square", big bore relative to their short stroke. Porsche being a classic example, there are many others.

The small bore will not allow for big valves, compared to a "real" 427.

This FMS 427W IS a big bore/small stroke as 427W's go. 4.00" stroke, same stroke as 408W. I understand what your saying as it's not as short of a stroke and large bore as a 427FE but this engine is not the long stroke 427W that a production block has to have to reach 427 CI.
Larry

[Excaliber]

Relatively speaking that is accurate, it is a "big bore", short stroke when compared to a more typical 351W bored .060 (thats about maxed out) and stroked to 4.125 (again that's maxed out), you end up with 427 cid.

The bore centers the block is cast with eventually determine just how big the bore can be. Like I said, .060 is about max for a 351W.. THIS block is .125 over bore, wow, those cylinder walls have to be paper thin, possibly the lower water jackets are grout filled as well. I wonder whats in the fine print about overheating issues with this setup? The 4" stroke is the stock stroke for a 400M (351W based block with a factory longer stroke yeilding 400 cid, called the 400M for modified). So Ford is using a "standard" crank that's been around for decades (holds cost down) and somehow got the bore up to 4.125. Impressive bore size, I really gotta wonder whats in the fine print with this motor?

Myself, I was never was a big fan of a Windsor going this far out, it just seems to "stressed" for my taste. I'd pefer just a bit less, 402-408 maybe, but that's just me, maybe I'm being paranoid... Hydraulic roller is a good call for this motor, delivers better horse power at a lower rpm. With that large a stroke keeping the rpm down to a lower level is critical to it's survival.

Might be a "siamese" bore? Where the bores actually touch each other, no water jacket at all between them. Like GM has done with the small blocks. You might be able to do that with cylinder liners, bore the heck out of it, right into the water jackets and then insert liners (sleeves)?