9/11 Run

[Karl Bebout]

Mike, if you are lucky, you could have a loose or faulty ground, maybe a faulty neutral safety switch? Does the starter drive (Bendix) kick in? Did you try shorting across the solenoid terminals? (i and +)
I'm just throwing stuff against the wall to see what sticks. Do you have an electric fuel pump? If so, can you hear it kick in when you turn on the key? What, if any sound does the car make when you try to start it?

[Phx Mike]

Originally Posted by Karl Bebout

Mike, if you are lucky, you could have a loose or faulty ground, maybe a faulty neutral safety switch? Does the starter drive (Bendix) kick in? Did you try shorting across the solenoid terminals? (i and +)
I'm just throwing stuff against the wall to see what sticks. Do you have an electric fuel pump? If so, can you hear it kick in when you turn on the key? What, if any sound does the car make when you try to start it?

Appreciate the suggestions. Here is some additional info....car was running good down to the gas station and started fine after the fill up. The engine was running for about 30 seconds as I left the filling station then after I pulled out onto the road and stopped at the light it began to bog down (car was in gear with clutch disengaged). Idle slowly dropped down to about 600 rpm and then it died. Like it was under a load and stalled. Now when I turn the key to the accessory or run position I have 12 plus volts and fan/fuel pump etc run fine. But when I turn the key to the start position I just get an awful groaning sound - no cranking at all - like the starter cannot turn the engine. I don't hear the normal sound of the bendix (solenoid) kicking the pinion in/out either. No clicking like a dead/weak battery either. I crawled underneath but cannot tell if the starter pinion is engaged in the flywheel ring gear (i.e. stuck in the forward position) or not.

I have had starters before that would get hot and the insides would expand a bit and the solenoid would engage the pinion but not crank until it cooled off, but this is different....i don't hear the pinion engaging and cooling off did not help. When you turn the key to the run position there is just a horrible groan like the starter is trying to turn something it can't. No clunking of the solenoid in and out and no spinning.

There is no neutral safety switch. I thought about jumpering the solenoid while laying under the thing yesterday but I can't see the pinion anyway (frame and bell housing in the way).

So my guess is a) frozen starter motor (possibly due to the pinion jammed in the flywheel and can't disengage and starter was damaged) or b) the engine is locked up for some other reason. I suspect (a) because I don't hear the pinion thunking in/out when I turn the key and because the engine was running good with no issues (oil looks great, etc).

It will get its 3rd trip to the shop this week. I don't have time to play with it.