More help?

nevermind65 · #1 (**permalink**) 08-27-2007, 04:05 AM

Hello,

Unfortunately, when I bought my car, it came with absolutely zero paperwork, so I wonder if I could get some more information from fellow owners.

The brake master cylinder is bad. Does anybody happen to know what these were originally off of? It looks like a GM cylinder from maybe a Corvette or a Trans Am? How about the master for the clutch? Again, maybe an old GM?

The brake master is leaking and I need to replace it. Thanks in advance.

Ron

Tom Howland · #2 (**permalink**) 08-27-2007, 08:45 AM

Ron,
My clutch M/C is a WAG F27047. Yours may be different. I have not replaced the brake M/C yet. I think you are right about being a GM part. I removed the M/C and took it down to a mom and pop auto parts store. They gave me the parts book to look through for the correct picture. Be sure to know the bore size as the same unit can vary. I didn’t and I had to take it back after I installed it.

n6opv · #3 (**permalink**) 08-27-2007, 07:48 PM

Ron,

There were many different master cylinders used over the years. A picture would be helpful to see what you have. Many cars used Airheart with integral reservoirs and were later changed to Tilton with remote reservoirs. Very early cars used different off the shelf units as Tom mentioned. As another option, CNC master cylinders with the flat lid should fit under the floor (what I'm using) although the cars did vary quite a bit so your results may vary too

Jason

nevermind65 · #4 (**permalink**) 08-27-2007, 08:06 PM

I'll grab a picture tomorrow. I think it is a regular old GM master cylinder. I thought maybe from a Corvette or T/A, but it isn't due to the rear reservoir not being large enough.

nevermind65 · #5 (**permalink**) 09-20-2007, 04:59 PM

Hello,

Sorry for the delay, but I've posted pictures of the master cylinders in my gallery.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks.

n6opv · #6 (**permalink**) 09-20-2007, 11:53 PM

Well, that was not what I was expecting to see on the pedal box. But I'll agree with the GM master for the brakes and the clutch master looks like the one in my Studebaker

Definitely shouldn't be a problem at the parts store. Most of the Arntz / Bulter cars I have seen have the dual brake masters with a balance bar, so that's what I was envisioning...

On another note, did your rear suspension come that way when you bought the car? Very nice that you have all the latest upgrades (sway bar, strut rod kit, Aldan coil-overs) although someone goofed on the rear strut rod frame mount. It's upside-down and backwards; probably works fine but not as stiff as it could be. And I'd love to know where the differential stiffening plate (under the diff) came from; it's the lightweight version!

Jason

big-boss · #7 (**permalink**) 09-20-2007, 05:29 PM

Just take it to Napa and exchange it out. My guess is the little one is off an old ford PU of ? and the double is off some newer Ford. You will have no trouble getting what you need.

big-boss · #8 (**permalink**) 09-20-2007, 05:31 PM

As I finshed the reply a thought had occured.
Put a nice couple if Tiltons on it that is what was on my Butler. Just measure the size you have now and get some tiltons, still easy.

ZOERA-SC7XX · #9 (**permalink**) 09-20-2007, 05:57 PM

Looks like a C3 Corvette unit. Take it off and bring it to NAPA or some other well stocked parts store and I'm sure they'll match it up.

nevermind65 · #10 (**permalink**) 09-21-2007, 05:19 AM

Jason,

Yes, the rear suspension came that way. Apparently, the car was raced for about 3 years before he had it titled. The front suspension has a few nice features also. Koni shocks, adjustable sway bar and links, and if I am looking at it correctly, they had the upper control arm modified so you can adjust caster/camber on MG front suspension.

As for the brakes, they have adjustable proportioning valves for the front and the rear, which is maybe why they didn't use the dual cylinders. When winter arrives, I'll just yank the masters and measure them up. I want some nice aluminum ones anyhow.

Thanks for everybody's help!

Russ Richard · #11 (**permalink**) 11-19-2007, 11:17 AM

Jason, I have just purchased one of the last Butler's made by Ron, maybe even the last...not sure. You seem to know a lot the Butler and I hope to be able to correspond with you later. The car will be sent to Texas within the next 30 days. It has a lot of nice things, Halibrand rear, Aldans, 488 Aluminum Dove Ford, etc. nice stuff. Am trying to findout everything I can about the Butlers. The car is black, no stripes...just gorgeous. I am like a kid waiting for the truck to arrive.

Russ

n6opv · #12 (**permalink**) 11-19-2007, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ Richard

It has a lot of nice things, Halibrand rear, Aldans, 488 Aluminum Dove Ford, etc.

Russ,

That car sounds familiar... there was one Butler produced with the Halibrand IRS and that aluminum Dove motor. It was custom built for the owner with everything you could possibly get and was one of the last, but not the last. The chassis number is probably in the mid 90's (out of the 100 built). Is this the car you are getting?! Pictures please

Jason

Russ Richard · #13 (**permalink**) 11-19-2007, 08:35 PM

Yes, the car is the one with the IRS Halibrand and some would say everything but the kitchen sink. When the car gets here, I will be posting lots of pics. There is a lot of chrome on the underside, the Halibrand is polished and it is hung from a cradle....looks very nice. The detail work is superb...don't know about Ron's work on others, but this one is exceptional

Russ

n6opv · #14 (**permalink**) 11-21-2007, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ Richard

Yes, the car is the one with the IRS Halibrand and some would say everything but the kitchen sink... The detail work is superb...don't know about Ron's work on others, but this one is exceptional

Well then, congratulations are definitely in order; that's an awesome car! The detail work is always superb on the Butlers and the quality is excellent. Almost everything on the cars is handmade and no shortcuts are ever taken.

Jason

nevermind65 · #15 (**permalink**) 11-20-2007, 05:21 AM

So, there were only 100 Butlers produced altogether? I see one for sale right now on Ebay.

Do you know when they went to the jigsaw puzzle style hood? Mine has it, I've seen most without it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by n6opv

Russ,

That car sounds familiar... there was one Butler produced with the Halibrand IRS and that aluminum Dove motor. It was custom built for the owner with everything you could possibly get and was one of the last, but not the last. The chassis number is probably in the mid 90's (out of the 100 built). Is this the car you are getting?! Pictures please

Jason

Russ Richard · #16 (**permalink**) 11-20-2007, 08:02 PM

Remember I am a newbie to Cobra....but, what is a jigsaw puzzle hood?

Russ Richard · #17 (**permalink**) 11-20-2007, 08:17 PM

Hey everyone...accept my apologies for screwing up this post. I am such a dummy...did not move over to page 2, I kept answering the last post on page 1. Oh well, I will get it straight.

I did not buy the car from Ron. I bought this car from the guy Ron built if for. As Jason posted, this is one of the later cars, probably mid nineties serial number. The car has less than 200 miles on it. It is just as Ron delivered it.

I am planning on meeting Ron after the New Year to learn everything I can of my car of course learn a lot about Cobras. I am really excited about meeting him.

n6opv · #18 (**permalink**) 11-21-2007, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nevermind65

So, there were only 100 Butlers produced altogether? I see one for sale right now on Ebay.

Yes, only about 100 Butler body / chassis combinations were produced. See the "production figures" post for more info. The car on eBay right now is not a Butler. It is a very early Arntz, before the front / rear body hoops and door guard beams.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nevermind65

Do you know when they went to the jigsaw puzzle style hood? Mine has it, I've seen most without it.

The cutback (or notched cowl) hood was only used on some later Arntz cars for access to the Chevy distributor (see pic below). It's not really even that common and mostly only appeared on Arntz's "type 4" cars. Ron never used this hood on the Butlers; they all had an original style hood, as they came from a completely different set of molds.

Jason

nevermind65 · #19 (**permalink**) 11-22-2007, 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by n6opv

Yes, only 100 Butler body / chassis combinations were produced. See the "production figures" post for more info. The car on eBay right now is not a Butler. It is a very early Arntz, before the front / rear body hoops and door guard beams.

The cutback (or notched cowl) hood was only used on some later Arntz cars for access to the Chevy distributor (see pic below). It's not really even that common and mostly only appeared on Arntz's "type 4" cars. Ron never used this hood on the Butlers; they all had an original style hood, as they came from a completely different set of molds.

Jason

Well, that can't be true. My car is definitely a Butler and it has the notched hood on it like your picture is showing. I've seen about 3 Butlers and admittedly, none have this hood.

Update: I don't know what I have here. Maybe an Arntz Type 4?

I did notice the car on Ebay had to be something very early. It looks as though the tunnel isn't as wide as mine, and the rear quarter panels are shaped differently.

SoTxButler · #20 (**permalink**) 01-15-2008, 09:22 PM

Finally, a few pics of my Butler is in the galleries at "sotxbutler".

Enjoy