Airbag question - Sideshow?

[Zedn]

Probably a question for side show.

With the difficulty i am having complying with ADR 10/02, i thought i would ask the question about airbags.

What would be required and is it possible to install an airbag? I have a spare VX column here that will take an airbag steering wheel. I am going to be using a holden ECM. How hard would it be to hook up an air bag module?

Is it simply a case of seat belt tensioner, air bag module, clock and airbag steering wheel? Or does the circuit require other components?

Personally i think it would be more dangerous to retrofit an airbag to a car thats not designed for it than use a standard steering wheel. But there is not a lot of option at this stage.

Cheers.

[Tenrocca]

As your still building Liam - cant you wait to see if things change for the better before trying something as radical as that? Hell Mine has been finished for a few years now and Im still waiting for the mess to sort itself out.

[sevenohms]

I'm a victorian, I believe we are exempt from airbags, but I just want to confirm the RTA is forcing the NSW boys airbags into cars. As an engineer whos worked on crash programs thats a bit scary! Theres loads of testing for the distance from the passenger, the correct shock load into the sensors, so the timing is right. If it goes off milliseconds too late it wont work, or worse it'll blow up in your face! Too early and it'll deflate!

Originally Posted by Zedn

Probably a question for side show.

With the difficulty i am having complying with ADR 10/02, i thought i would ask the question about airbags.

What would be required and is it possible to install an airbag? I have a spare VX column here that will take an airbag steering wheel. I am going to be using a holden ECM. How hard would it be to hook up an air bag module?

Is it simply a case of seat belt tensioner, air bag module, clock and airbag steering wheel? Or does the circuit require other components?

Personally i think it would be more dangerous to retrofit an airbag to a car thats not designed for it than use a standard steering wheel. But there is not a lot of option at this stage.

Cheers.

[Zedn]

The RTA is not forcing airbags. They are requesting compliance to ADR10/02. There is no manufacturers of aftermarket components that can provide test results for this standard. I have checked with all major steering wheel companies and they can only provide test results for ADR10/01.

ADR10/02 is based on UNECE R12 rev 3 and requires steering columns to undergo testing for column displacement, body block and head form test. I have only been able to get test results for the first 2 and not the head form test. I have spoken to MOMO, Autotechnica and Isotta.

Caterham in the UK have a boss that complies with test results, but they use a specific steering column. The only way to use their setup is to use the entire system. Thats fine with a clubby but a cobra is much heavier, especially without power steering.

As most new cars have airbags they are exempt from ADR10/02 as they comply with ADR69.

I believe all other states accept ADR10/01.

[Philm]

I find that we tend to lose sight of what we are doing here. We are enthusiast’s not budding car manufacturers.
I can understand and welcome the commitment to improving safety and the impact on the environment with noise, emissions, brake performance etc etc.
However this issue of air bags/ steering wheel impact, only affects the driver of the vehicle. If the driver is fully aware of this condition then they can make the decision to drive the car.
I feel that we need to lobby for concessions were we are able to revert back to ADR10/01.
I don’t agree with the hoon tag we get, nothing can be far from the truth, we are typically a community of people over 35 years of age, and there cobra is a significant and valuable part of their “wealth”. We are not the people in Macca’s car parks doing burn outs or street racing down Parramatta RD, It is almost embarrassing but the most common use of a Cobra is cruising down a good road with your partner in the passenger seat meeting up with some friends for a cuppa and a scone.
Where is the data that’s proves or shows a problem we have with safety, I am sure this data would actually help our cause.
I don’t this we need to take on the RTA with the ADR fight, as this will create a Cobra I would not like to own.
I feel this is a personal thing, what right do the RTA have in not allowing me to enjoy a hobby, yes I will make sure it doesn’t impact on society, but I would not like that choice made for me.
The day all cars are scrapped because a new ADR is brought in is the day I will concede the fight is over. So while it is perfectly legal for me to dive my splitty, without seat belts or air bags then just leave us alone.

Phil

[Merv and Sharon]

Good points Phil. I recall a discussion on the Forum a few weeks ago where the situation of Cobra replicas was canvassed and a national action group to work towards the establishment of a separate category was suggested by some. The issue seems to have died in the meantime, but is there any way that our state associations can get together on this issue? Otherwise, each new ADR is a deeper cut, with NSW at the forefront presently.

[Zedn]

Originally Posted by Philm

I find that we tend to lose sight of what we are doing here. We are enthusiast’s not budding car manufacturers.
I can understand and welcome the commitment to improving safety and the impact on the environment with noise, emissions, brake performance etc etc.
However this issue of air bags/ steering wheel impact, only affects the driver of the vehicle. If the driver is fully aware of this condition then they can make the decision to drive the car.
I feel that we need to lobby for concessions were we are able to revert back to ADR10/01.
I don’t agree with the hoon tag we get, nothing can be far from the truth, we are typically a community of people over 35 years of age, and there cobra is a significant and valuable part of their “wealth”. We are not the people in Macca’s car parks doing burn outs or street racing down Parramatta RD, It is almost embarrassing but the most common use of a Cobra is cruising down a good road with your partner in the passenger seat meeting up with some friends for a cuppa and a scone.
Where is the data that’s proves or shows a problem we have with safety, I am sure this data would actually help our cause.
I don’t this we need to take on the RTA with the ADR fight, as this will create a Cobra I would not like to own.
I feel this is a personal thing, what right do the RTA have in not allowing me to enjoy a hobby, yes I will make sure it doesn’t impact on society, but I would not like that choice made for me.
The day all cars are scrapped because a new ADR is brought in is the day I will concede the fight is over. So while it is perfectly legal for me to dive my splitty, without seat belts or air bags then just leave us alone.

Phil

All true Phil. Perhaps it can be added to the ADR plaque that is required.

At this stage no exemption has been granted.

[OZCOBRA]

Originally Posted by Philm

It is almost embarrassing but the most common use of a Cobra is cruising down a good road with your partner in the passenger seat meeting up with some friends for a cuppa and a scone.

Phil

....Yes well there were a few who said it was like that following you on the track.......and Sundays events reinforced it!!!..

[Philm]

The scones were burning had to get them out of the oven quick.

[Rog246]

Originally Posted by Merv and Sharon

Good points Phil. I recall a discussion on the Forum a few weeks ago where the situation of Cobra replicas was canvassed and a national action group to work towards the establishment of a separate category was suggested by some. The issue seems to have died in the meantime, but is there any way that our state associations can get together on this issue? Otherwise, each new ADR is a deeper cut, with NSW at the forefront presently.

Merv seeing as QLD is moving into state election mode NOW is the time to start becoming proactive wouldn't you say ? We should have a chance of at least being heard. That being said we are in a much better situation than most other states and territories
Rog

[Merv and Sharon]

I agree Rog. I believe that there are several of us willing to help but not as individuals. It would be more effective if we attempted under the auspices of the state/s organizations. Unless there is clear conviction on that I can't see much hope. Maybe I am completely wrong on that, however.

[Merv and Sharon]

Thanks to all those who sent PMs but it seems no interest at clubs' level in pursuing this issue at this stage. Thanks anyway.

[Zedn]

Originally Posted by Merv and Sharon

Thanks to all those who sent PMs but it seems no interest at clubs' level in pursuing this issue at this stage. Thanks anyway.

Thats the difference between hot rods and cobras...

[Rob. Smith]

Phil,
I'm surprised that you haven't been made to put seat belts in your Vee-Dub. I recall back in the late 70's I was forced to put belts in my G&S VW dune buggy and later in the late 80's I was then forced to put retractable seatbelts in a 73 Mustang. I don't understand the train of thought of the RTA. It looks to me that they are making impossible rules to eliminate all avenues to creating an "alternative" to the production vehicle. And isn't the production effort a bit 'bland' ?

[strida]

Liam,
You're right but
Talking to my spare parts guy yesterday, he told me that a long time customer with a "T" bucket registered for almost 30 years (first regoed early 80's) received a letter at registration renewal time a couple of weeks back to come in for an inspection, he did so and his registration was not renewed until further notice without telling him when that might be.
Don't know if that is significant or not.
He's apparently seeking legal advice based on precedent.
Merv, I'd also like to see some interest by the kit manufacturers as well.

[Philm]

Hi Rob,
I was just making a point, I do actually have retractable seat belts in my 67 Kombi, it also has disc brakes a ball joint front end and an irs rear.

I am sure you don't need to have seat belts in cars pre 1968 as this is before ADRs were put in place.

The bus is a bit more lively than standard and although I had already installed them it would have been a condition of the engineer before he would approve the modifications.

I understand that stock restored busses don't have them, however when you start modifying you then need things like seatbelts, demisters and 2 speed wipers etc etc.

Bert, our 67 13 window Kombi did a 16.4 sec 1/4 mile fully dressed with roof rack and skinny street tyers.

Phil

[Zedn]

I have the solution for ADR10/02.

I just got an email from Caterham who make a boss that has been tested and passes UNECE12/03. I have test results.

From the measurements they have given me its a 5/8" 36 spline.

If any NSW builders want one let me know.

[Philm]

Interested,
do you have any pics?

Phil

[beauies]

Zedn, interested pm sent

[Zedn]

http://www.altairhyperworks.co.uk/ac...ms_Simpact.pdf

120pounds plus postage.