Introduction, and a question

[AJS1964]

Hi,

I have enjoyed reading the posts on this site for a while and thought it time I come out of the shadows and introduce myself.

My name is Anthony, I live in the north west of Sydney at Castle Hill. I am a 1964 model, which, in my mind, puts me right in the middle of classic car building years. Like most 1964s, I am starting to get some mileage on the clock and thinking about doing more of what interests me in life, and less of the boring day to day stuff.

I have always wanted to restore a 1967 mustang, but what stops me is that I would not be capable of doing all the body / chassis repairs that a model such as that potentially requires.

I am attracted to a kit cobra because it is more of an assembly, and less of the tear down, rust repair, pannel beat, rebuild activity. I know both activities have their own complications, but I would rather at this stage of my life build a Cobra. I also think the Cobra is the most wonderful shape and love the smaller car, big engine combination.

I am not going to ask the members of this forum which is the best supplier of kits; I need to do my own research and make my mind up. What I would like to know is, what will be the restrictions placed on the engine in one of these cars. I am struggling to find any succinct information on engine emissions and therefore the type of engine I can use.

I ideally would like to purchase a pre-1980 351 windsor engine, strip it down and rebuild it. If I get that done, then it is meant to be that I continue on to build a replica Cobra. If not, then I wasn't committed enough to complete the build in the first place.

Could you please point me in the right direction. Can I rebuild an old engine and the place it in to a replica Cobra, or do I need a modern engine to comply?

All advice gratefully accepted.

Regards,

Anthony

[Modena]

Welcome to the madness Anthony. I'm sure the NSW people will assist with specifics here, but here is the general overview, obviously I am from Vic so be aware different states have different nuances to this;

These cars are classified as ICV's (individually constructed vehicles). The authorities in most states view them as "new" cars, therefore they need to comply with all current ADR's at the time of build. However, there are some exmeptions, such as no crash test required, no ESC required, no ABS/airbags required. You could do these things if you want to, but you do not have to.

As far as engine goes, for Vic, you can have any engine you please - carbutetted big block if you wish - but you have to pass an IM240 emissions test. This is a simple emissions chassis dyno test which has to be done by a certified centre and costs about $700 and in which the vehicle is driven through a simulated road course, accelerated, 90kmh run etc and they measure CO2, NOX, etc. If your engine can pass, then anything is possible. Having said that, a carby big block would not pass. Basically anything from euro III (?) standard era "should" pass, or could maybe be tuned to pass, so around the last of the injected 302's / early LS1 should be ok if the engine is in good order and has new cats.

For your specifics if you have not already, you need to make contact with a RTA certified engineer. They are required to certify your build and are the only people to provide the ultimate authority on what you can and cannot do.


HTH!

[Gav]

Have a good think about perhaps venturing down for Shelbyfest in a couple of weeks time.
There will be cobras of every type there and plenty of like minded people to explain what they have built.
I know from my experience that attending one of the cobra events is a great way to get ideas and gain loads of helpfull advice.

[Zedn]

Unfortunately as Modena has said you have no chance with a 351 due to emmisions.

Have you considered buying cobra that is from that era and restoring it?

Whilst these are called a kit car, they are not just a bolt together job. Most kits require fabrication and lots of modified parts that can add up quick if you don't have the skills/time to do it yourself. On the other hand an old cobra would require less restoration than a really old rustang.

[BMK]

Winton raceway near Benalla.

March 22nd 23rd and 24th. 24th at Wangarratta sale yards until about midday. Usually kicks off around 9 am each day.

Saturday the 23rd is the main track day with the track, pits open to the public with free entry. A good day to see cars run, talk to owners and any sponsor suppliers who maybe there.

[Treeve]

To add to what Modena has stated:

In NSW you only need the IM240 test to show emissions compliance equivalent to 1997 levels or newer. It is also free in NSW at two RMS run locations.

If you want to talk to a NSW engineer about the process, there's a list here:

http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/registrati...ulletin_01.pdf

I am on this list, and have certified numerous ICVs in the past 12 months. If you would like to talk about the ins-and-outs with a certifier, feel free to give me a call. I'm an enthusiast first, so I don't charge for phone conversations - I like to meet new people and see new builds.

Treeve

[jcraigau]

Welcome aboard!

They are a great bunch of blokes here, even some sheilas.
As Rex Hunt would say it's all in the chase...

Once you've hooked one the fun begins.
It really depends on whether you want a kit or a project.
The more you spend up front the quicker it will be to get on the road.
A $15K investment up front means you are not only assembling a jigsaw but you have to make your own pieces.
$50K up front means you get it all in a giant box with a manual telling you to take piece 156 from box 6A and inserting it into picture 24G.

First time round I wish I spent more up front and got something on the road a little quicker.
After that you learn to adapt and fabricate and figure out what to do better.

Again it's up to you so good luck!

--JC

[750hp]

Originally Posted by Treeve

I ... have certified numerous ICVs in the past 12 months. If you would like to talk about the ins-and-outs with a certifier, feel free to give me a call. I'm an enthusiast first, so I don't charge for phone conversations - I like to meet new people and see new builds.

Treeve

That's one of the best paragraphs I've read for a while. Good on you Treeve. I hope that people who need the services of a certifier keep this in mind and support those who are in it for the right reasons and provide guidance and advice on this site.

[Beejay]

Anthony,

I live very close to you, happy to take you for a spin in my car and talk about building a Cobra.

PM me and I will give you my number. Cheers,
Ben

[AJS1964]

What a friendly welcome!

I posted my introduction and expected maybe 1, maximum 2 replies. When I checked back tonight there were 8 replies......must be a friendly place to be.

I appreciate the advice, makes sense to me. I was planningto plant a big, older model Windsor motor into the car so that I could a) enjoy the old school sound of a windsor small block and a carbie and 2) most importantly, I was trying to avoid the complexities of EFI, wiring looms ECUs etc.

On reflection, I will be learning a enormous amount along the way, so might as well plonk on the EFI lesson along the way too. No point rebuilding a motor then failing the IM240 test.

Treeve and Beejay. Thanks for the offer to assist. I will take you both up on that at some stage.

Finally, hope to get to Shelbyfest if at all possible, I am sure that would clear up many of my questions fairly quickly.

Anthony

[Treeve]

Just to let you know, I have a 'real' job, which pays my bills and mortgage, so if you want to talk cars, my official certifying time is 6-8 in the evenings, and 'office hours' of 9-5 on the weekends (Sat or Sun, I don't mind).

As mentioned, I do it as a hobby, and my main area of expertise is ICVs. I've even got one of my own (how many certifiers can say that?)

Treeve