To ABS or not to ABS-that is the question!

[Rog246]

I'm kinda at that point where the decision has to be made ABS or NOT.
All your collective thoughts will be appreciated....no really they will

[letsboogie351]

Rog
my Painter has ABS on his Cobra and it works very well. Though initially there were problems. You must ensure that if you are using factory setup that the tyres you use have the same circumference. Otherwise the computer will have a problem with the different signals from the front and rear wheels. I think he also used the booster and m/cyl from later model Ford as well.
Although I don't think that is critical as I have also seen other cars use XF booster and m/c with their ABS setups
Doug

[PeterAllen]

Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
the slings and arrows of outrageous brake lockup
or to take ABS against a sea of troubles

My understanding is that ABS comes into play ONLY in a braking emergency (Is that correct?). Way way back in my racing days (drum brakes) I simply practiced pulse braking all the time in my road car until it became a conditioned response. I didn’t brake hard, I merely pulse-braked at the end of each brake application coming up to every set of Lights etc. It wasn’t a skill that was hard to learn back then but it will be interesting to see how I go after 35 years of automatics and ABS.

[boss ac]

Rog, I say do it...my ABS was wired in with traction control and a simple button on dash..They are either both on or both off...as its a blown 5.4 its a very different critter with them off!...I kinda don't bother turning it off anymore

[boxhead]

I say no ABS, As Peter says, it is something you can "learn" to control pretty easy.
I have out braked M series BMW's in Melbourne last time I was down that way, so in my opinion, just one less headache.

[ERA2076]

No way -

Have Trac Control and ABS on my SVT.

Both are terrible. They just get in the way and ruin lap times.

chr

[PeterAllen]

I will preface my comment by stating I don’t see myself as a ‘cowboy’ and having worked for Dr Michael Henderson for several years I take road safety very seriously.

I think it depends on what YOU want to use YOUR car for and how YOU want it to function. I was fortunate enough to be given a ride in Baz’s cobra a few months ago and it was the best motoring experience I have had in 35 years. The nostalgia was coursing through my veins. I realised what a thrill motoring can be and it took me back to days of travelling in a TR3 up to Catalina.

To feel the rawness of the technology will be exhilarating; a missed downshift, a locked brake, a puff of smoke, the smell of burnt rubber, I can hardly wait. Be still my beating heart.

[David Hodgson]

ABS is not for hard braking, fast lap times it's for panic braking where your'e leg or brain isn't quick enough to [i]pulse[i] brake. It's that totaly unexpected OH F*CK situation that you didn't coming.

It saved me a very expensive repair once and the poor chick in the other car from a crook neck for the rest of her life.

[vatdevil]

No!!!

[Rog246]

Well, considering that I learnt to drive in an Austin Wasp where acceleration was measure in Months and deceleration measured by how many expletives could be used as you were looking for an escape route (lever actuated brakes the size of a thimble) pulse braking is no biggie for me as I done it since I was eight and could reach the pedals !
I was thinking probably more along the lines of is it worth all the effort to install & get traction control as a side benefit or have the intrinsic of good old fashion feel. And I do love a good feel
When it comes time to move it on-will it make it more saleable-probably bit of a moot point unless the buyer is Gen Y. Then again if it goes to my daughter she might like the idea-she is a late braker like her Dad!
I just realised that the last 3 cars I've owned had ABS and I don't ever remember ever using it

[Rog246]

Originally Posted by PeterAllen

I will preface my comment by stating I don’t see myself as a ‘cowboy’ and having worked for Dr Michael Henderson for several years I take road safety very seriously.

I think it depends on what YOU want to use YOUR car for and how YOU want it to function. I was fortunate enough to be given a ride in Baz’s cobra a few months ago and it was the best motoring experience I have had in 35 years. The nostalgia was coursing through my veins. I realised what a thrill motoring can be and it took me back to days of travelling in a TR3 up to Catalina.

To feel the rawness of the technology will be exhilarating; a missed downshift, a locked brake, a puff of smoke, the smell of burnt rubber, I can hardly wait. Be still my beating heart.

Gee Pete, there's a circuit that's missed. Went once and saw Big Pete G and Spencer Martin in their Mustangs go side by side through the tunnel of love- holy crap how did they do that !!

[sambo]

I guess ABS would help in go-to-whoa events. And it's probably a good selling feature... for the MX-5.

[Modena]

You can have traction control without ABS, look up race logic.

I seriously investigated ABS, and there is no way I would try a "donor" ABS. The only way to do ABS properly is to have a system designed for the specific vehicle, programming takes into account vehicle weight, front/rear bias, corner weights, tire size and type (not just overall circumference), brake % bias front/rear, and other things. The brake bias in a Cobra will be nowhere near the sedan or UTE that most donor systems come from.

But fear not, a custom programmed ABS unit is available, it is made by Bosch and is meant for race cars but you can order one for your Cobra, at which time you give them all the accurate data I mentioned above and they create a custom ABS computer program for you in Germany to suit your specs. It's around $5500 Euro (AUD fluctuates with exchange rate) for the complete kit including the custom program and sensors, but the sensors do not work with all reductor wheels. It has an in-cabin dial for different ABS aggressiveness settings including turning it off completely.

[PeterAllen]

Apologies but off topic.

Originally Posted by Rog246

Gee Pete, there's a circuit that's missed. Went once and saw Big Pete G and Spencer Martin in their Mustangs go side by side through the tunnel of love- holy crap how did they do that !!

I remember Spencer in the Boomerang Towing Service FJ but not in a Mustang - you might be thinking of Norm Beechey or Bob Jane or even Niel Allen.

Not quite side by side but here is Ron Hodgson and Big PPPPPPete in Jags through the Tunnel (circa 1961). Taken with a Box Brownie!


Gees I must be old - Now back to the topic.

[Krait]

The Daytona Sports Cars Coupe has 3 channel ABS if I recall from a Race mag issue. They used the system off a ute but their brake engineer insisted the braking system be fine tuned first so that the ABS didn't act as a bandaid for poor engineering.

[Rog246]

[quote=PeterAllen;1273615]Apologies but off topic.


I remember Spencer in the Boomerang Towing Service FJ but not in a Mustang - you might be thinking of Norm Beechey or Bob Jane or even Niel Allen.

Not quite side by side but here is Ron Hodgson and Big PPPPPPete in Jags through the Tunnel (circa 1961). Taken with a Box Brownie!


Gees I must be old - Now back to the topic.[/QUOTE
And you think you're by yourself do you Pete ? LOL

[Rog246]

Neil Allen !! Now there was a bloke with a big pair !
I sure would have liked to have seen his Bathurst lap record in the F5000. It was 1.13 +/- or thereabouts if I remember right, in about 1972-73 or there abouts and when you consider how the track was when he did it, it nothing short of F#cking amazing !!

[Rog246]

Originally Posted by boss ac

Rog, I say do it...my ABS was wired in with traction control and a simple button on dash..They are either both on or both off...as its a blown 5.4 its a very different critter with them off!...I kinda don't bother turning it off anymore

Hey Boss, saw your post on Aus Ford Forum, have you sorted out the coolant loss yet, as I'm interested to know what the problem was/is?

[Rog246]

Back to topic.
I can see both sides of the argument-well I think I can
I'm not hard on brakes, gearboxes or clutches for that matter. If you had the pleasure of having my dad teach you to drive none of you would either. He was an aeronautical engineer & always said you can treat your machinery as hard as you like as long as you are gentle with it
In other words use it to its design capabilities but don't abuse it. Learning to drive with a crash g/box and no brakes to speak of you HAD to learn to be smooth.
In an era where brakes were average at best you learnt to use the g/box to slow you down as well as pulse braking and the 'ol heel & toe shuffle', so the ABS question whilst not rhetorical really has been asked as I got the ABS control unit etc when I bought my engine & g/box. I was lucky enough to get a whole bunch of extra stuff as well thrown in.
Can anyone tell me if the FORD traction control is built into the engine control ecu.
I made a presumption that the traction control system used the ABS via the ecu to make it work. Is this correct or am I barking up the wrong tree as usual?

[Modena]

Different systems do traction control/ABS in different ways, e.g. some use the ABS system to brake the wheels, some are stand-alone between the two systems (e.g. race logic is ignition/fuel cut I think).