New rules announced to allow street rods to be fully registered

[spookypt]

An interesting read.

New rules announced to allow street rods to be fully registered | Gold Coast Bulletin

[sambo]

Does this mean it will be easier to register a pre-1949 replica than an AC Cobra replica in NSW - when comparing the ICV rules with the new street rod rules?

[750hp]

Looks like it Sambo. Seems like now would be the right time for NSW (and other states) to align pre- and post-1949 construction guidelines.

Matt - I've seen that article working its way through social media today. It's everywhere, which is a good thing. It'll be interesting to see if it grows legs from here.

[Rog246]

I find it very strange that you can build a pre-1949 hot-rod on a brand new chassis and pretty much do what you want engine wise and not have to jump thru the hoops that we have too

[sambo]

Many more hot rodders (with connections) than there are Cobra builders Rog!

[Donunder]

Originally Posted by sambo

Many more hot rodders (with connections) than there are Cobra builders Rog!

Which begs the question -- what are our cars exactly?

Replicas of the "real" Cobras of the sixties is the answer. And expanding on that, why are they then not considered by us and the authorities as our version of a hot rod? They're home or factory built specials in the shape of a Cobra. How does that differ from a home or factory built special in the shape of a 34 Ford?

I sometimes wonder if we're not being a bit precious and kidding ourselves about our cars. Sure, we love 'em, and sure they look fantastic, but are they simply our version of a hot rod? Heresy? I don't think so. Perhaps if we threw our lot in with the hot rod scene and adjusted our thinking a bit, we too might be able to access the build and approval process that seems to make life so much simpler for the hot rod guys.

I acknowledge the Shelby continuation cars have the right to be considered in a different light but how many of them are there in Australia? Perhaps we should realise that for the good of the Cobra "industry" in this country, and so that future Cobra replica builders will not be squeezed out or drowned in a sea of restrictive red tape in the years to come, it might be time to again revisit the idea of approaching the hot rod association and asking to throw our lot in with them. It's not a case of eating humble pie. It's a means by which our sons and grandsons will be able to build fabulous Cobras well into the future.

[jcraigau]

Yea, what would happen if we put a hotrod body on rather than a Cobra shaped one?

[Rog246]

Probably the real answer is that they are organised and have a nationally recognised association & each individual club affiliates itself with the national body & hence one united voice.
The old strength in numbers thing.

[just dreamin]

Quote message in reply? Which begs the question -- what are our cars exactly?
ICV or Individually Constructed Vehicle is our category.
Street rods are a replica or a car (modified, etc,) built before 1949 generally speaking.
Therefor the street rod fraternity is not waiting at the alter waiting for us to propose, even if they had such a desire.

[Rob. Smith]

ICV...you are the manufacturer, company , whatever...you must meet the ADR's that's it.
the hotrod fraternity had the foresight to see the nasty future and made a deal with the RTA to consolidate their build rules. ICV's are still one off cars ! We do the hard yards and meet the rules so our vehicles are far more roadworthy ! I'm up for correction on this but that's the basics when I built mine.

[Donunder]

Originally Posted by Rog246

(They)....have a nationally recognised association & each individual club affiliates itself with the national body & hence one united voice.

Nationally recognised by whom Rog? Does this association have an official title? And what is the make-up of this body? Club representatives, manufacturers (are there such things as hot rod manufacturers in the same way there are Cobra manufacturers? --sorry for my ignorance here), transport dept reps, police, vehicle certification engineers ??? Is this organisation recognised by each of the various state governments? If so what's to stop our various state clubs doing the same thing -- forming a national body with Australia-wide acceptance by the various state transport departments?--if this is indeed the case-- apart from the expense of engaging a law firm to steer us through the legal and administrative nightmare such a move would doubtless involve. Did the hot rod boys act when things were simpler and have we maybe missed the boat? Could we use their charter perhaps? If they've done the initial legwork and a precedent has been established, could we piggyback on what they've achieved?

Originally Posted by Rob. Smith

The hotrod fraternity had the foresight to see the nasty future and made a deal with the RTA to consolidate their build rules. ICV's are still one off cars !

Rob, I don't fully understand what you mean by "consolidate their build rules".
Does that mean that for instance if you want to build a 34 Ford there is only one chassis allowed, one form of suspension allowed, one size engine allowed etc and are these rules enforced by some national body during the build and prior to the completed vehicle's being presented for registration approval?

And isn't any vehicle built by a guy in his garage an ICV, regardless of whether it looks like a 34 Ford or a Cobra when it's finished? It's still constructed by an individual to his particular taste and desire --- isn't it?

For instance is a Cobra built by you regarded differently from a Cobra built by Absolute Pace for example? Is one an ICV built by a skilled amateur and one a factory build by professionals? I mean a Superformance or Factory 5 car, one of dozens and dozens being churned out by the factory could hardly be termed "individual" could it? I know they're US cars but bear with me here.

I just don't see why it should be so apparently easy for a T bucket with all its obvious design flaws and safety issues, sail through rego when it's so bloody difficult to compliance a Cobra. I know which of the two I'd rather drive my grandkids around in.

[guye]

Wasn't there a thread a little while back on a similar topic with input from one of the catterham club members, who have a national standard or something? Focus was on the fact they joined state clubs in a united force for this purpose I think. I seem to recall him offering his services to assist somehow? Anyone remember that? (I'm old - memory fading...)

[Treeve]

Yeah, it was me.

The National Street Rod Federation are the National Body.

The Street Rod Manual is listed by the Dept of Infrastructure alongside VSB14 and the likes.

I don't own a Caterham, I've got 3 other Lotus 7 replicas though...

All I see from this is lots of sour grapes about compliance. Since I've seen more than enough threads about stuff 'dropping off after registration', there seems to be little to worry about with actually complying. I even inspected a car from QLD that had no reverse light and was on carbies, but somehow got registered in NSW without major changes. So if you won't look after yourselves as individuals, why would the government trust you as a group?

Treeve

[Dimis]

Thx for the info.

You say sour grapes. I say parity/equality.

Originally Posted by Treeve

...and was on carbies, but somehow got registered in NSW without major changes. So if you won't look after yourselves as individuals, why would the government trust you as a group?

Treeve

Huh? Are carbies any more dangerous than the alternative?

[Treeve]

Not about safety, but about compliance. why bother complaining about all the compliance stuff when it doesn't seem to stay on. It's pretty hard for fuel injection stuff to fall off, and be replaced by carbies - you pretty much have to plan to do it. Might as well not worry about complying in the first place if that's what happens.

[just dreamin]

Treeve, this thread is jumping all over the place:

1. You have to comply to get your car registered in the first place.
2. Undoing your compliance by altering your car may be common, but its still illegal, unroadworthy and stupid.
3. We have been down this road a number of times over the years and it has come to ZERO INTEREST.
4. It has failed previously because
a. No one wants to do the work.
b. Members with registered cars don't give a toss for the new guy and his rego.
c. No money and rampant inertia.

[sambo]

I think you'll find there has been a lot of work behind the scenes to ratify a similar set of standards for Cobra builders. Maybe someone will chime in here.

[Rob. Smith]

Originally Posted by Donunder

Nationally recognised by whom Rog? Does this association have an official title? And what is the make-up of this body? Club representatives, manufacturers (are there such things as hot rod manufacturers in the same way there are Cobra manufacturers? --sorry for my ignorance here), transport dept reps, police, vehicle certification engineers ??? Is this organisation recognised by each of the various state governments? If so what's to stop our various state clubs doing the same thing -- forming a national body with Australia-wide acceptance by the various state transport departments?--if this is indeed the case-- apart from the expense of engaging a law firm to steer us through the legal and administrative nightmare such a move would doubtless involve. Did the hot rod boys act when things were simpler and have we maybe missed the boat? Could we use their charter perhaps? If they've done the initial legwork and a precedent has been established, could we piggyback on what they've achieved?






Rob, I don't fully understand what you mean by "consolidate their build rules".
Does that mean that for instance if you want to build a 34 Ford there is only one chassis allowed, one form of suspension allowed, one size engine allowed etc and are these rules enforced by some national body during the build and prior to the completed vehicle's being presented for registration approval?

And isn't any vehicle built by a guy in his garage an ICV, regardless of whether it looks like a 34 Ford or a Cobra when it's finished? It's still constructed by an individual to his particular taste and desire --- isn't it?

For instance is a Cobra built by you regarded differently from a Cobra built by Absolute Pace for example? Is one an ICV built by a skilled amateur and one a factory build by professionals? I mean a Superformance or Factory 5 car, one of dozens and dozens being churned out by the factory could hardly be termed "individual" could it? I know they're US cars but bear with me here.

I just don't see why it should be so apparently easy for a T bucket with all its obvious design flaws and safety issues, sail through rego when it's so bloody difficult to compliance a Cobra. I know which of the two I'd rather drive my grandkids around in.

Years ago the hotrod community consulted and set rules with the RTA..there were agreements about how much of an original car was present and the registration rules. Funny I wrote to the hot rod federation asking about jag rear end mods on my cobra and never got an answer...I rewrote the letter with another name and address about a jag rear end in my 34 ford and got pages of information !!! T buckets are history...no more can be built in australia..horsepower to weight restrictions. As for the factory built cobras ...Those builders go through the nasty australian design rules puzzle. as do the individual builders ! there's an old story about a builder suing his engineer for a failure then the engineer suing RTA for approving it. I don't know how much truth is in that yarn but when I was going through my engineering approval... this seemed very valid...the RTA did not want to know about ICV s so they just threw the full ADRs at me...My engineer was very savvy on the situation and helped me through the process with great aplomb ..as he said its interpretation of the rules and making the pen pushers accept the description. My engineer made sure my car was above the requirements for safety and compliance.. a nightmare but worth it.
I'm afraid we have to wear the brunt of the rules...but what really pisses me is that the insurance companies wont recognise that these vehicles are better built and maintained than most production vehicles ! ( yes there are a few scary ones out there ) but look at what's on the roads nowadays !
We have to wear the rules but with the confidence that they are better than what ford and holden ..etc produce. ha ha ha

[Donunder]

Thanks for that reply Rob.

It's interesting but hardly surprising that T buckets have gone the way of the dinosaurs. Trying to crystal ball the future, and bearing in mind your comments about the horsepower to weight restrictions that killed off the T buckets, is it not too big a stretch to envisage that some way down the track -- hopefully a long long way -- we may face the same blanket ban? With lighter and lighter bodies and chassis being built, and with engine builders now able to turn out big numbers for not a lot of money.... well, who knows? Your point that a Cobra may well be strong light and safe and completed to a high standard will count for nought to a junior pen pusher in his office cubicle who can't see past a proscribed formula in an ADR manual.

With the bureaucrats ever keen to crack down on anything that doesn't conform to their grey boring box mentality, I fear for the future of ICVs in this country. Rob you've certainly paid your dues with your experience with your engineer and the RTA. I have a lot of respect for Treeve's expertise in this area too, and reading between the lines of his post it seems to me there is the very real chance that future Cobras will all have to be factory built to ensure compliance, thus denying enjoyment and satisfaction to those who wish to tackle the build themselves.

We can only hope that, without a body such as the National Street Rod Federation to protect our interests in the future, Cobra manufacturers will be allowed to continue to build cars that will retain the magic of our cars of today, and not be forced by legislation into producing some watered down pale imitation. Prius Cobra anyone?

[Bryan Wilson]

My car was fully imported from England where when a "kit car" is constructed using a donor car then the kit takes on the title of the donor car my Cobra is registered as a 1974 jaguar xj6. When it arrived in Australia the engineers report was titled for registration in Australia and change of description but Vicroads in their wisdom decided that if it was registered in England as a jag then it will remain a Jag here. So it only has to meet 1974 ADR's BTW it was built in 1982. with fully polluting carbed V8
Cheers,
Bryan