LS3 vs Coyote

[blykins]

The fact that this is something that I do professionally should add a little clout to the argument. If it doesn't, then so be it. However, it's my job to be familiar with bore spacings, valve angles, port dimensions, port volumes, etc. I see similarities between engines and I see where some engine designs are taken from the positive aspects of others.

However, you can bolt an LS head onto a SBF block with the same ease that you can bolt a 351C head to a SBF block. If you can't see the similarities between an LS head and a Cleveland head, I'm not sure how to explain it to you.

The very fact that the changes made to the SBC line of engines (that had in fact been popular since the 50's) going from Gen 1 to the LT1/LT4 and then from the LT to the LS line made them functionally more like a SBF is very hard to dispute.

So, you can add all the little literary intricacies to your paragraphs that you want (crickets chirping) but as you put it, the facts are indeed the facts.

Just so you know, I am a Pontiac fan too.

[moore_rb]

Originally Posted by blykins

If you can't see the similarities between an LS head and a Cleveland head, I'm not sure how to explain it to you.

The very fact that the changes made to the SBC line of engines (that had in fact been popular since the 50's) going from Gen 1 to the LT1/LT4 and then from the LT to the LS line made them functionally more like a SBF is very hard to dispute.

I can see the similarities, and I'm not disputing the similarities. I just can't bridge the gap to implying that these similarities exist due to industrial espionage, or copy-catting, any more than I could when I point out the LS1 inspired intake manifold sitting on top of the Coyote5.0

Originally Posted by blykins

Just so you know, I am a Pontiac fan too.

Hey- It's the Indian in me that makes me so ornery....

[blykins]

I never said that GM engineers broke into fords engineering building and copied all their data… I am saying that the similarities are (by far) not coincidental.

Anyone can take a look at a winning cylinder head package, figure out why it's so good and then implement those factors into a new design.

[Aussie Mike]

Originally Posted by blykins

However, you can bolt an LS head onto a SBF block with the same ease that you can bolt a 351C head to a SBF block. If you can't see the similarities between an LS head and a Cleveland head, I'm not sure how to explain it to you.

How is the LS similar to a Cleveland head? I can't see it. The port shapes are nothing alike. LS has tall narrow cathedral ports and exhaust ports that work. Valves are all in line on the LS where as the Cleveland head they are porcupine and more like a BB chev.

I have a 4V Cleveland sitting on the floor not 10 feet from an LS1 and they couldn't look more different to me. The bore spacings might be the same and they are 4 bolt ber cylinder but that's about it.

The real question you have to ask is "Why are people trying o bolt LS heads on Windsor blocks if the Windsor is so much superior?" You don't hear LS guys going on about their Cleveland head conversions...

All this discussion about copying, again I can't see it. The motors have elements that lots of different manufacturers used. The deep skirted block of the LS motor with it's cross bolted mains... Is that a rip off of the FE motor? Umm Chrysler and plenty of European manufacturers have used that technique too.

It's like saying GM made their pistons round just like Ford. They must have copied that idea

Many elements of all these motors have been shared across a ton of other designs. Each is their own unique combination. Some combos work better than others for different reasons.

I like the motors from both these manufacturers. I posted the vid because I thought it was an interesting comparison of two different ways to get the job done. Both sound great and will make more power than you know what do do with in a Cobra.

You get the same arguments like: "My 2L Nissan makes more power per cubic inch than your clunky old V8 so it must be bette...r" If that makes you happy with the team you cheer for then OK, whatever floats your boat.

[blykins]

Bore spacings are alike.....valve sizes.....port volumes.....intake to exhaust flow rates (exhaust ports do NOT work, most LS7 camshafts have 20-30 extra degrees of duration built into the exhaust side, which is similar to a Cleveland, where it's not uncommon to add another 8-12 degrees of exhaust duration), exhaust port spacing, etc, etc. Now obviously it's not a direct copy, because technology has advanced in the last 40 years, but the LS design is 180° out from the traditional SBC and is much closer to a Ford. Compare an LS7 head to a 4V Cleveland head some time.

Another added bonus, when you convert an LS engine to a carb/distributor setup, you use an MSD Ford 302 distributor.

I have no clue why people are putting LS heads on Fords. Probably because LS engines can be bought for pennies on the dollar and since the heads do so well, it's a potential for an easy power adder. Plus, it's just hot rodding nature I suppose. When you have a Ford 302 that has 160 cfm intake ports on factory heads and you can bolt on something that approaches 300 cfm, I could see the attraction....

[moore_rb]

Originally Posted by Aussie Mike

It's like saying GM made their pistons round just like Ford. They must have copied that idea

Best post of the day... Priceless.