Brake Pipes

[martrogers]

I'm putting in an ABS brake system from a Commodore VZ. I asked my local brake experts to make up some pipes, they gave me copper pipes which I installed.

Another brake expert came over to bleed the ABS valves and refused to do the work because he said copper pipes are illegal on ABS. My engineer also says they should be steel.

The people who sold me the copper pipes are adamant that copper is OK - "ask the RTA" they say. They say 90% of the pipes they sell are copper.

(I note that the original pipes are steel but assumed this was on economic gropunds)

Who is correct? Whay do people here use?

Its been a much harder job putting in the pipes now everything else is in, now I have a pile of copper tubing - anyone know how to make a whiskey still!

Martin

[Tenrocca]

Gday Martin - I know my comprehensie build manual states not to use copper pipe for brake lines as it can become brittle over time. Going from that and what the brake guys have said I would probably suggest steel and make that "still" with your left over copper!

[vettestr]

Copper tube is not allowed in the states either. It is too soft in terms of abrasion resistance. Copper tubing work-hardens and becomes very brittle especially at the flare. The British have developed what they call "copper brake pipe", which seems to be a seamless tube but it is made of a copper alloy but again not as good as what can be purchased today. Use good old Bundy Tubing with the proper flare and fittings to CYA.

[Gav]

What you have been sold is copper coated steel pipe or bundy tube.
Very common, I'm surprised that the second brake expert didn't know what it was.
I have used it and had no problem.

Gav

[Jerry Clayton]

Check it with a magnet---all I use is stainless steel aircraft tube and in areas of possible contact with other objects use a stainless coil spring type guard over the tube before flaring

Jerry

[vettestr]

As a side note copper alloys have better corrosion protection than zinc, cad etc... and corrosion is the #1 failure of brake systems. The big NO NO is pure copper tubing like refrigeration tube or the hardware store stuff and the visual difference makes it tough to tell apart. Second most common failure is cracking / breaking of tube.
I would think a copper alloy coated tube would be great and as mentioned a magnet would identify the presence of steel under coating. In this world of extreme liabilities and SUE happy world I too would back off from what looked like pure copper tubing. The alloy products designed for brake systems are not magnetic and would give me no way to tell from refrigeration tubing so I would also refuse to work on the system just because of liability. Maybe not fair but you must protect yourself anymore.

[boxhead]

If it is a straight copper pipe then you will not get a roadworthy certificate with them fitted.
Not sure about other states but they are ilegal in the NT

[martrogers]

Thanks guys, great information.

They are non magnetic and appear to be copper all the way through when sawn. They also bend more easily than the steel so I guess that says something about their strength.

I have replaced them and am happier in my own mind, did a better job second time around too!

[Tenrocca]

Originally Posted by martrogers

........ did a better job second time around too!

I dont think there is a builder in here that cant relate to that!!

[Rob. Smith]

A bit late but I used 3/16" Copper Nickle tube. It's a steel alloy that is ADR approved along with Bundy tube. Beautiful to work with, Comes in a 7.6mtr coil and can be straightened easily. It looks like copper but it's magnetic and cuts like steel and double flares without problems.
The bundy tube is lately in conflict with OH&S as there is lead in the galvanising. There is an Indian made Bundy tube product. It has a green colour to it and it is very hard thus hard to work with.
Smithy

[sambo]

Rob, where do we buy this copper nickel tube from mate? I'm about to attack my brakes in the coming weeks.

Cheers,
Paul

[Rob. Smith]

G'day Sambo,
I bought it from a mob called Stopmaster Brakes. The man to talk to is Tyrone. He is a walking "brake encyclopedia". Show him a part and he will tell you what it is off and it's part number, if it's available and if not, what will replace it. He's good ! He may be able to tell you where you can get it in Vic.
His number is 02 4943 7222 His fax is 02 49439500
Stopmaster might be big enough to be in Victoria......Good luck !
Smithy

[Rob. Smith]

Damn... I forgot again...The Copper Nickle is NOT magnetic as I said before.
Sorry about the miss-information. All other info is correct.
Smithy

[sambo]

Thanks Rob! I'll try him tomorrow.

[PeterAllen]

I'm about to start making up the brake lines while the car is on the rotisserie. A 'search' threw up this thread but I wonder if there are more up-to-date thoughts about which material I should use to make the hard lines.

My thoughts are to temporarily fit the lines and then take it to a brake shop to have the fittings attached. I see it as something of a one-off exercise and figure I could have the fitting done for less than buying a decent flaring tool. Thanks

[Zedn]

I went with zinc plated steel for mine. Got the parts from summit.
If you plan to get a shop to flare the pipe, talk to them about what you can use. I really wanted to use stainless for mine, but flaring was too much of an issue without very high quality tool.
I flared mine myself with a cheapish tool. Haven't charged it yet so don't know how well it's worked but flares look ok.
Don't forget to check with engineer for clip spacing.

[boxhead]

Peter, I am happy to mail my flaring kit over to you if you want to borrow it.

[Rob. Smith]

The trouble with stainless is that it work hardens and the flare face is exceptionally hard....thus it takes excessive force to "seat" the flare to the fitting..the bundy tube and zink coated stuff are soft enough to mould and comply with the flare fittingface....therefore not needing a great force to seat. I might be wrong but stainless can only be flared once...a double flare is not possible as it becomes too hard and cracks. That's what I found when making hydraulic lines for a power tilt on an outboard. The stainless looked fantastic all polished up but leaked at nearly every joint. I fixed it with soft copper "washers" but this was just a tilt drive not a brake line that your life depends on.

[Rob. Smith]

The bundy tube is available in Australia and has a copper bronze look about it.....Go to a large name brake supplier....if they don't have it. Go somewhere else.

[Modena]

I used bundy but it does not have a copper look to it, it looks like steel and if anything looks (maybe) like zinc coated. I bought the K-tool flaring tool from Summit and it works fantastic, would not hesitate to buy it again, it is one of the best tools I have ever purchased.

I was concerned, having seen it on other Cobras, about the pipes getting a corroded look over time, so after completing flaring etc I taped over the ends and painted the pipes with spray epoxy enamel. I used stainless flare nuts and taped them over so they did not get painted, this took two passes with paint/tape and moving the flare nuts to get all the pipe painted (except for the flar itself which I left unpainted).

I read somewhere that annealed stainless is workable to flare, and I'm sure there are people on here that have done pipes in stainless.