Show and Shine results

[BJ's Snake]

Results are up on the NSW website for those interested

http://www.cobracarclubnsw.org.au/shownshine%202007.pdf

Cheers

Brett

[Philm]

HI Brett,
Do you know what under body means?

Are they looking at suspension or the paint finish under the body?

As I don't think I have ever looked at a cobras under body.

Phil

[BJ's Snake]

Hi Phil,

I think they were looking at 0verall neatness under the car considering they are all driven on the track and road, as well as exhaust systems (sidepipes,underbody system neatness. Audley's car is finished underneath as good as on top. The paint judges were checking door gaps and finish inside sills and all that. Good job I thought. At least you scored better than last year!

Cheers

Brett

[Philm]

Thanks Brett,
That would explain his success over the years.

An older car with 60 000 plus kays and still the benchmark.


Phil

[spookypt]

Are yes, the old "subjective subject" of the Show and Shine...... Been there done that! I have been thinking about this for the last 12 months and seeing as though the results are out I thought I'd put forward an idea!!!

I was wondering if we could take out the "subjectiveness" of the "this is better than that" type of arrangement and simply have a top 5 as voted by every cobra owner competing at the nats... That way if we're not happy we can beat each otehr up! We can still have best sounding etc etc BUT have a competitor only vote... That way WE judge ourselves in essence and should we win an award we know that it has been judged and awarded by our peers which is truly IMO the essence of that particular event!!!!

I know I will get flack for saying this... It just seems more questions are asked as to how rather than statements as to YEAH I reckon that too!!!! If its a poll and 100 drivers voted for example PHIL's car as best then so be it!!! But at least you could see by how much and who polled the highest!!!!

A can of worms maybe... But street class V Show class... Who determines THAT!

It all just seems way too subjective to me...but maye thats what S and S's are all about!!! For the record, I have never won a trophy at a S and S (except an encouragement award to polish harder???) But I was always told I'd go blind if I did that too much!!!

Maybe I'm just jaded?????

SpookyPT

[400TT]

I've done the show judging before at the Nationals and I take my hat off to those judges. They would have done their best and I thank them for it.

Yeah, Street Class & Show Class idea always causes grief. It's simply got to go in my books.

We should just take a page out of the other major shows and just award the following:

Overall Top 10 - If you make the top 10 at the nationals you get a trophy with the placing and with the level of competition and quality of the cars these days it's an achievement...a BIG achievement.

The Top Show Car gets a larger trophy. 2nd place smaller, 3rd smaller again and then maybe the rest all the same size. Something like that.

Also same trophies as previous years for best paint, best interior, best engine bay etc etc.

Awarding a top 10 will be no more trophies than they do now as they award the top 5 show & top 5 street cars.

As an example from this year a local QLD car was determined to be a show car. It's a car that is not only old now(5 years old) with lots of k's, but is also regulary raced(sprints, drags, motorkhanas etc) i.e. something like 20+ days a year racing. This won't be the only example from this year, other states will have similiar stories.

It all comes down to what defines a Show & Street car. In my opinion you can't define it and as a club we have not been able to define it satisfacory in the last 10 years I have been attending.

Plus you don't have to have people going around determining who is show & street class, it's actually less work to do a Top 10.

Rant over...

[Rob. Smith]

I am constantly asked will I show it ? My car is not yet finished and it is not
( to my standard ) show quality. It is "road practical" and it's road worthy.
I have been told the car is show worthy but I scoff at this, I have just built the car to be maintenance easy. To make a car showable you need excessive time and money or someone else to do the tricks. I have done everything myself. I am proud of this as well as my skills. I don't care if I get awards or not. I know if I go spearing off into the Australian bush at speed. It is my fault,totally and a pretty car's wreck is the same as an ugly car's wreck.
So when it's judged, by whom ever, I will be happy whatever the out come !
I used to go to lots of hot rod shows and see heaps of faults and rough jobs but those cars are the results of projects built with passion and imagination. I know I will just enjoy my car regardless of it's appearance !

[PCC]

Well said Rob!

Its not how it stands against others, its your baby and that what matters.

Road Practical hmmmmm

Road style more like it!

[BJ's Snake]

Hi Guys,

The judges had about 2 hours to judge 106 cars which is no mean feat, so I think they done pretty well and as they said to me was they didn't expect such high quality and there wasn't a bad car out there which made the decisions harder. I agree there should be a competitors choice award anyway which wouldn't be hard to add in the grand scale of things but hard to do a day before practice as alot of people aren't there on the Friday. It used to be in town on the Saturday morning but Council stopped that so where can they go from here to be fair and keep track time to the max for all concerned.

Pete - Jen Hawkins anyday!

Cheers

Brett

[Philm]

Megan does it for me.


Brett, you make a good point. We expect a full days work in 2hrs. I hope I haven't put forward any negativity towards the judges as none was intended.

Phil

[Tenrocca]

Now this is a very important discussion, and one Ive argued long and hard over .....

Definately Jen. Megan is a bit of a horse - good proportions, but just big. Mizz... you would come up to her belly button I reckon.

[BJ's Snake]

Phil
No negativity put forward at all.
Come to think about it...You get more time on the track during the S&S than the other events!

Andrew- I have seen alot uglier horses than Megan!

Cheers

[400TT]

Originally Posted by PCC

I remember a certain Harlequin Cobra that ran out at the Nationals a few years back - beautiful car, but worth $90,000 then.

How can a $50,000 car compete with a similar model, but which has had $40,000 more spent on it.

You know Pete that a few cheaper cars from time to time have beaten that Harlequin beast. Not at the Nationals from memory. But our old $50k DRB, beat it at QLD AGM show one year. And I know Pete H's sub $50k DRB did it as well.

But I see what you are saying. But in all honesty I'm quite happy for someone to spend big $$$, produce a Cobra that is amazing and for them to come at the top of the field at the Nationals. I also can't see a way that we could ever police what has been spent on cars or even value of them.

I'm still behind the Top 10 idea. Throw out the notion of Street & Show class.

Keep the judging the way it is. They do a top job.

As per PhilM's suggestion, add a couple of more trophies for things like best innovation, best engineering etc.

I think it was one of the best Nationals Show & Shines for ages. It was on bitumen, the cars were spaced well apart, most people participated fully by opening bonnet/boot etc.

[Baz]

The duco which really appealed to me was on Cobra Rego No. AC-460 with the +500 c.i. motor and a pair of 300mm roll bars.

It was painted in a magnificent metallic eggplant colour. The car definately lined up in the Show and Shine, but didn't compete in any of the other events.

I thought it would win 'Best Paint', but it doesn't rate a mention on the 'Results' pages.

Does anyone have any idea why this is so?

Baz.

[Ralph_C]

Originally Posted by Baz

The duco which really appealed to me was on Cobra Rego No. AC-460 with the +500 c.i. motor and a pair of 300mm roll bars.
.....
Does anyone have any idea why this is so?
Baz.

Hi Baz - this car is not in the entrant list - I think it belongs to Mark Liebich from Grenfell NSW. There were a number of cars that were not entered that got out for the picture, then stayed when moved for the S&S.
edit: sorry - found him at the bottom of the S&S list - no. 500 (=2nd for paint) - he is not on any of the track event lists....

Originally Posted by 400TT

......
I think it was one of the best Nationals Show & Shines for ages. It was on bitumen, the cars were spaced well apart, most people participated fully by opening bonnet/boot etc.

Spot on Craig ... the idea of moving after the photos was excellent (anyway, they are always way too close for judging when placed for the photos) - Stephen did a great job on the photos, and made sure the cars were placed in a way that was completelly unsuitable for judging - must make sure that happens all the time ....

[Tenrocca]

Originally Posted by Baz

The duco which really appealed to me was on Cobra Rego No. AC-460 with the +500 c.i. motor and a pair of 300mm roll bars.

It was painted in a magnificent metallic eggplant colour. The car definately lined up in the Show and Shine, but didn't compete in any of the other events.

I thought it would win 'Best Paint', but it doesn't rate a mention on the 'Results' pages.

Does anyone have any idea why this is so?

Baz.

i thought he and Phils cars were the 2 standouts in the paint department. Quite a few cars scored 18 along with this car - all nice paint but it was definatey a step from those up IMHO - and the amount of people admiring the paint on Mark's car would also indicate that.

[Philm]

I was looking for the best engine bay trophy, I worked hard on getting that right and against common opinion most of the work was done my self, yes the welding and folding was done by shaun it is all my design and most parts were made out of cardboard first.

The radiator and shroud is all Shaun design and work.

So I accept the trophy and say yes I am over the moon with the recognition.

Baz, I accept your opinion on who should of won best paint. I feel a little awkward that you would make that statment though.

I have done what I intended to do the car was at it prettiest for the nationals, hunting more trophies yes but not S&S, I ant to try and get a trophy, or recognition for my driving, I am working hard at getting competitive here.

Phil

[Baz]

Originally Posted by Philm

I was looking for the best engine bay trophy, I worked hard on getting that right and against common opinion most of the work was done my self, yes the welding and folding was done by shaun it is all my design and most parts were made out of cardboard first.

The radiator and shroud is all Shaun design and work.

So I accept the trophy and say yes I am over the moon with the recognition.

Baz, I accept your opinion on who should of won best paint. I feel a little awkward that you would make that statment though.

I have done what I intended to do the car was at it prettiest for the nationals, hunting more trophies yes but not S&S, I ant to try and get a trophy, or recognition for my driving, I am working hard at getting competitive here.

Phil

Phil,

I didn't mean to ruffle your feathers. That was the furthest thing from my mind. Your paint was exceptional too but remember that this was only MY humble opinion. Surely individuals are permitted to have their own views on things. I really liked the finish and depth of colour on Mark's car.

Youv'e got to admit that I was close in my judgement. You scored 19 for paint and he scored 18.

I don't know why you would feel awkward about me stating my humble opinion and I hope there's no hard feelings. I admire what youv'e achieved with your fabulous car.

Regards Baz

[BMK]

Philm

Phil

Well done with the trophies. Do I sense a trophy hunter now..

[Gav]

Jenn Hawkins is definitely the elite level.