SHELBYFEST to class or not to class

[LoBelly]

My view is that it can be both.

I do not think that there has to be a class for every variation of cobra or to take into account all of the variables that may (broadly speaking) influence lap times.

I am, as I have said before, in favour of broad classes for the ShelbyFest.

eg.
5.0L (stockers - say factory (or not very big) cams + road tyres)
There are heaps of guys with a nice car that gets a once or twice yearly track day and ought to be able to give it a go with some prospect of placing well.
6.0L (anything you like except slicks)
Starting to get serious and has the potential to produce the quickest lap of the day
6.0+ (racers - includes turbo/supercharged motors - anything goes)
The loonies who are too far gone and should be segregated for the general health of society.

On the basis that if people spend the $ they get the benefit and the variations make classes somewhat arbitary anyway.

That should leave room for the more imaginative 'personal best' type events.

I really enjoyed the regularity aspect last year, particularly as I thought it let everyone in. If it were up to me I'd make it the 'Perfect 10' event - where you are ranked on the time difference from your fastest and 10th fastest lap.
I think its much better to take a good segment of someone's day and let people push a bit (and possibly make mistakes and recover).

My last thought is that if people want to have comms/timers why not let them?

ta

LoBelly

[REPTYL]

Thank’s for engaging LoBelly.

We ran with classes almost exactly as you listed back in 2005.
The guys with modified 5 litre engines weren't happy being put in with the next class.
We only had a couple of cars in the top class and half the field in the other 2.
We also have too big of a gap in the 6lt class, with unmodified pre 1980 fords engines through to new generation Ford and Chevys with twice the rated output at the wheels.
These guys will not be happy racing with the top group.
Also factor in classes for the Mustangs and GT40s and Daytonas.

One thing I've learned organising club events over the last 10 years. When it comes to handing out trophies for classed events, we always have guys that feel hard done by.

I don't want Cobra events to go the way of many others over the years, where the biggest budget means the most trophies.

Wouldn't it be nice to know that your old stock 289 could compete equally against the race bred CTC cars? But at the same time the CTC guys could duke it out with the other racers for top honors.

Now that you have your new engine. If we run your 3 proposed Cobra class you would need to run in the mid to high 1.30s to get a trophy in your class.
I can tell you from someone who has run in this class for 8 years, that's getting very quick.

Would love to have heaps of Classes and extra events, but the number of trophies needed would be ridiculous.

Love your idea of the difference between the top 10 fastest laps. Last years calculation was far to complicated.

In regards to the Comms/lap times.
With any competition where regularity or completing specific lap times are needed these devices are a huge advantage to the few that have them.
They wouldn't be outlawed completely just in those specific events.

[400TT]

Jason, sounds good.

I certainly think it's worth trying a year without classes. With the events you are proposing any Cobra, regardless of HP, build cost etc could win a trophy.

You could also think about an event for:

Fastest session(stint). i.e. Fastest set of 3 or so laps. So it's not just someone that can throw together a lucky fast lap. But someone that can go out and go fast for all 3 or so timed laps. So you would just keep the total time of each session. The A Series racing we do up here in QLD is timed like that. Not the fastest lap, but the fastest time for each stint.

You could also do some peer vote type trophies - best sounding cobra, best looking cobra(on track), best lines, best engineered(from PhilM), most legal(roadworthy). You could get a panel together to come up with a short list and then go around and get votes for the trophies that required it. These would be more work, but that's what volunteers for for. Anyway, just some ideas.

I think a trophy for "most legal" is an interesting one and would certainly bring out some unique compeition. I know some interesting an unexpected Cobras that would top that list.

[Philm]

Jason,
Your ideas are fantastic and I love the fact that you are willing to see what the entrants would like from the event.

I would however prefer the class style competition, but as you have suggested, the classing is subjective and somewhat unfair.

Would we be able to class cars by time,

eg group 1 1.40 or quicker
group 2 1.50 to 1.40

etc etc.

The entrant will nomiate what class they would be in. The rule would be that if you go quicker than your class then you are not eligable for a trophy.

Don,t forget that we also have the motorkana, absolutely everyone has a chance at being the champion.

Would the 3 events or competitions be run at the same time on the track or do we do the fastest, then the DYO then the regulatory?

Is an entrant allowed to enter all competitions?

I would be concerned if you try to fit to much in the one day, the best thing about Shelby fest is the relaxed atmosphere.

I would enjoy the weekend what ever is decided.

Phil

[Cameron Parsons]

Jason,

I like the idea of trying a year without classes. It will reduce complexity and allow a relaxed competition without those who are either unfamiliar, or more timid. There should be no pressure to take the family jewels to the raggedy edge.

A moment in the red mist (no offense to the car and very capable driver of similar name), can ruin a proud Cobra owners year.

But I also like Phils idea of nominating in brackets. It allows the double challenge of regularity and a cap so that driving beyond limits and comfort has a negative effect.

The only hardship here is for new drivers who have no idea what bracket to nominate. If you allowed them to go out in the first session of the day and effectively 'self nominate' through performance, that might provide a solution.

The regularity would also run in the brackets.

One last comment. If you do this, then I believe this comp should be fully restricted to Shelby 'style' vehicles (Cobra/GT40/Mustang/Daytona...etc). One capable rice burner would spoil the spirit. Let them run if they like and it helps the club be financial, but the understanding should be, no rankings in the official comp.

As for the Motorkhana, keep it in as is, it's fun and fast, and ANYONE could win.

Cameron

[REPTYL]

Thanks for the input guys,

All events would run as one through out the day.
Everyone’s full day of lap times would be entered for all events.

I'm not sure how the 'class by times" would go down. For example. I can do 1:49- 1:51 all day and squeeze out a mid 1:40 occasionally. Some one else may do 45s all day and down to a 1:40. The brackets are going to benefit anyone whose lap times are already at 1:40/1:50/2mins.
I think the DYO comp goes close to this idea, but doesn't discriminate against cars doing times in the middle ranges.

The event has only ever been open to Cobras, Mustangs, and GT40's. So no chance of non-Shelby’s taking the trophies.

[Aussie Mike]

I like Phil's idea with the time brackets. It takes into account the many ways of going fast and takes out some of the disparity between driver skill versus car development. Big HP vs good handling vs driving skills. It would also be a good way to group up similar lap time vehicles and avoid the need for over taking or getting held up by slower cars in the sprints.

The motorcycle racing clubs have a grading system based on past performance i.e race wins and lap times. They have A through D grade and is a way they can have a full field on the track and race yet you still have a chance of winning your grade if not take the checkered flag.

I'm not sure on the process for moving up the grades in bike racing as it's a long time since I was involved (I wasn't much good any way) but I think if you win your grade then you automatically move in to the next grade. We could group things similarly and depending on how you set the lap time cut offs between each group. Nearly ever one would have a chance of wining at some point as the faster drivers/cars would move to the next group. The system rewards improvement regardless of whether it's guys who improve their driving skills or develop their cars.

Just a thought.

Cheers