Still Smoking

saps · #1 (**permalink**) 03-12-2005, 02:55 PM

My new BDR is smoking very bad on startup. It's only got 355 miles on it. I've re-torqued the headbolts to no avail. I'm relatively certain I have one of the newer ford crate motors with a warranty.

I'm trying to get in touch with Reg now to see what's the best way to get it repaired.

I'm thinking I'd prefer to get the car back in Reg's hands and let them make it "all better".

Dennis Kelley · #2 (**permalink**) 03-12-2005, 03:14 PM

What color is the smoke? does it only smoke on start up or does it clear up after its ran for a while. Do you have a 393, 347, or other engine? I almost bought a crate engine but I went with a local machine shop just because ford didn't have a warranty at the time. Keep everyone informed. sorry your having problems but Reg is a great guy.

later dennis

saps · #3 (**permalink**) 03-12-2005, 03:48 PM

Dennis,
All good questions. The smoke is pure white and it only smokes on startup (then it goes away). It's a 393 crate motor from Ford which are coming with a warranty now (12 month/12,000 miles).

From my conversations prior to this, I know Reg is a class act and will take care of me.

I'll keep you posted.

Cheers!

Rick Parker · #4 (**permalink**) 03-12-2005, 04:18 PM

Pressure test your cooling system. White smoke is an indicator of coolant, blue is oil, black is fuel.
If your cooling system will not retain pressure it is indicative of a bad gasket seal (intake manifold ot head gasket, assuming none of your hoses are leaking) and will allow coolant under pressure after shutdown to enter the intake manifold or combustion chamber. Frustrating I know.
Best of luck to you.

Rick

Dennis Kelley · #5 (**permalink**) 03-12-2005, 08:23 PM

REtorque the intake just to be safe. It sounds like a gasket head or intake. When you retorqued the headbolts did you apply sealer on the bottom head bolts? I had a coolant leak due to a intake leak. the guy that built my engine advised not to retorque the heads due to the type of head gasket and sealer on the bolts. I was told not to over torque the intake on aluminum heads because it will cause a head gasket leak. Reg is a class act and its great you have a warranty. Don't over torque any bolts.

You may have to put new gaskets on it (intake and head) .

Later Dennis

Bruce Edwards · #6 (**permalink**) 03-13-2005, 07:04 AM

I have seen loose bolts all over the Ford box engines. What fluid is coming up short after you drive the car?
Lets not forget that some NEW engines will tend to smoke at times till the rings seat. Pull the plugs and read them. If they all show clean it may just be that you need to run it till the rings set. If you get a dirty one you may have a problem in that cylinder.

saps · #7 (**permalink**) 03-13-2005, 07:58 AM

Thanks, guys. I'll re-torque the intake just to be on the safe side. I should be able to get to that later today.

I know new engines will smoke until the rings seat but this is pure white smoke and a lot of it (it's like a smoke screen) only on startup and then it goes away after a couple of seconds. That doesn't sound like rings, does it?

Dennis Kelley · #8 (**permalink**) 03-13-2005, 08:08 AM

It sounds like coolant in the combustion chamber. Retorque the intake and see if that helps. When it warms up somethings expanding sealing the leak. does the smoke come out of one or both side pipes? I would not run the engine if you don't get it to stop smoking. where the head bolts loose? After you retorque the intake let the motor run and get hot so that all the coolant is burnt off. then restart from cold. I bet that its your intake gasket.

later Dennis

Bruce Edwards · #9 (**permalink**) 03-13-2005, 08:12 AM

Antifreeze will smell when it burns. Pure white is steam. Light gray is oil. Black is fuel.
Again before you start it next time pull the plugs and check them. If they look ok spin the engine over without the plugs and see what shoots out the plug holes. If you find a wet plug or water shoots out of one of the holes you will know you have a water leak. Any water on the end cylinders could be intake problems. Any from the center are going to be head gasket or bigger problems.
Same goes for oil. If the intake leaks oil into the cylinders you should have a pretty even pattern as most intake gaskets will draw oil on one whole side when they go bad. The aftermarket "Race" style are the worse. The heavy paper, kind of like a cheap header gasket, will draw oil right thru the paper till the silicon seal fails.
Again the best and fastest way to figure it out would be to pull the plugs.

Dennis Kelley · #10 (**permalink**) 03-13-2005, 06:18 PM

Rick and Bruce are right PSI test and pull the plugs first. Lest us know what it was. Are you running straight water or a mix of anti freeze?

later Dennis.

saps · #11 (**permalink**) 03-13-2005, 06:27 PM

Thanks for the advice!

I didn't get a chance to work on it today, but it's my only real task for tomorrow. I'll pull the plugs, pressure test the coolant system, and re-torque the intake.

I'll post tomorrow night after the work with the results. Thanks again!

Bruce Edwards · #12 (**permalink**) 03-13-2005, 06:40 PM

Don't pressure test it before you pull the plugs. The last thing you want to do is fill a cylinder with water. After you pull the plugs and spin it over to see if anything comes out would be a better time to test it. If you forget and turn it over with a cylinder full of water you can bend a rod. Not good or fun.

Dennis Kelley · #13 (**permalink**) 03-22-2005, 05:59 PM

SAPS

Whats the verdict? new gaskets or just a re-torque.

later Dennis

saps · #14 (**permalink**) 03-22-2005, 06:05 PM

Dennis,
Thanks for checking in. Unfortunately due to some health problems, I haven't been able to do anything to the car. It's priority dropped pretty rapidly..if you know what I mean.

I'll let you guys know as soon as I know something.

Thanks again for all the advice!

saps · #15 (**permalink**) 04-17-2005, 01:35 PM

Thanks to all for the advice. Once I got over my health issues, the problems appears to have been a leaking intake manifold. The majority of the bolts on the manifold were VERY loose.

Thanks!!!

oncebitten · #16 (**permalink**) 04-21-2005, 06:33 PM

I don't know about you guys, but for the money we spend on these cars you would think we would not have to work on these cars constantly fixing problems. Is this just the nature of the beast. My experiences have deffinitiely redefined the phrase "turnkey".

Websters now reads "turnkey" to find next problem...

saps · #17 (**permalink**) 05-30-2005, 10:07 AM

My troubles continue...

After thinking I had it fixed (by re-torqueing the heads and intake), the problem got MUCH worse. I took it into the shop. After checking the heads, intake, etc they discovered a crack in one of the cylinders.

This engine has less than 400 miles on it, was taken care of, has never been run hard.

I've got a call into Frank and Reg to see what can be done to get this problem worked out.

I'll update everyone on the progress.

Arghh....

Tongue Pirate · #18 (**permalink**) 05-30-2005, 10:15 AM

That's a real bummer! Hope you get it resolved soon!

Bruce Edwards · #19 (**permalink**) 05-30-2005, 10:37 AM

The block should have been check by the machine shop before and after boring. It would seem to me that the fault falls to the builder and machine shop.
The only way a bore will crack is because it is to thin. Sonic testing would have shown that.

saps · #20 (**permalink**) 05-30-2005, 10:39 AM

It was a Ford crate motor. The problem is definitely with Ford, but I went with that motor based on Reg's recommendation and since they have the relationship with the supplier, I'm hopeful they'll be able to help me out. I believe the engine has a 12month/12,000 mile warranty.