fuel injection

#136 · #1 (**permalink**) 03-04-2007, 10:50 AM

I'm thinking of changing to fuel injection. Where to put the o2 sensor. Has anyone with BDR installed one?

Roar · #2 (**permalink**) 03-04-2007, 11:17 AM

It depens on sensor type (narrow band or wide band) Narrow bands needs to see at least 600 F

or you are asking for problems. Wide band can be mounted further away. I am using a wide band mounted in the collector. The system is Holley commander 950 on a 347 with a paxton supercharger and i am running closed loop with no problem.

Roar

Commander · #3 (**permalink**) 03-04-2007, 11:30 AM

In the collector. You can buy weld-in bungs.

If you're worried about having a sensor reading just one side of the engine controlling both sides, don't. It seems to work ok with just one sensor.

#136 · #4 (**permalink**) 03-04-2007, 02:08 PM

what I'm wondering about is the BDR pipes are individule to just before the canister and the system, I'm considering, wants the o2 sensor to track readings of the entire passanger side, which is immpossible to do in the engine compartment of the BDR since they don't turn into one until outside of the car. So if I put the o2 sensor outside it will be right behind the front tire and subject to possible damage. Brian

Commander · #5 (**permalink**) 03-04-2007, 02:33 PM

are you worried about damage, or appearance?

my O2 sensor in the collector isn't in the most protected spot either, basically hanging under the car with the collector, with little protection from the elements and/or road debris.

May not be what you want to hear, but the collector is where it needs to be. No way to gather the tubes together earlier?

Roar · #6 (**permalink**) 03-04-2007, 02:48 PM

Had a look at some photos and see your point, can't see an easy way out

but why not run the system in open loop if your FI system can handle it.
We are running my brothers FFR like this, but are using an Innovate WBS for tuning only and it works fine. It's a matter of tuning.

Roar

#136 · #7 (**permalink**) 03-04-2007, 04:40 PM

I'm not worried about appearance as much as damage. but how I want to mount it will not point it under but sideways so maybe damage wont be as big an issue as it may seem?

Rwillia4 · #8 (**permalink**) 03-04-2007, 08:53 PM

When you weld the bung on you can always weld a "fender" just in front of it to protect it from debris coming from the front. It could be a part of a header tube cut in half. I hope to have the bung welded on tomorrow if I can find someone locally with a SS bung- or I have to order it from summit.

Roar · #9 (**permalink**) 03-05-2007, 08:32 AM

If you mount it sideways make sure the agle is at least 10 deg above horizontal.

Roar

Murphy · #10 (**permalink**) 03-05-2007, 08:46 AM

The collector makes sense to measure a combo of all cylinders however the system I used gave a min and max distance from the engine and my collectors are further away than the max distance so I put the bung in the individual pipes one on each side. Seems to work fine, runs great and no error message on the computer? Also EZ to hide the sensor and also it is protected.

Rwillia4 · #11 (**permalink**) 03-05-2007, 09:01 PM

roar,

why do you say to mount 10d above horz?

RICK LAKE · #12 (**permalink**) 03-06-2007, 03:47 AM

#136 The idea place is measure the size of your collector, say 3" and double it. this is where you mount the o2 sensor. If you don't have the room mount back as far as possible the mount on the angle is to keep moisture from laying on the O2 sensor. This in time will give you poor readings. Same thing with running Lead additives in your gas. A little is OK alot is not good. I have FI and run for 6 years a FAST system and it's great. I have my O2 on the inside of the exhaust between the body and sidepipe, about half way up as to keep it out of harms way. Rick L.

Thieleng · #13 (**permalink**) 03-06-2007, 07:03 AM

With the O2 sensor on my car I had a run in with a traffic cone at the track. I am having a flange welded onto the exhaust pipe in front of the sensor to provide protection. Driving the car after damaging the sensor was like having an arm tied around my back. The other modification that is being done is that I am putting an O2 sensor port on the drivers side of the car that I can use for more specific tuning. The sensor on the passenger side of the car will be the only one in place when I drive the car.

Roar · #14 (**permalink**) 03-07-2007, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rwillia4

roar,

why do you say to mount 10d above horz?

The sensor should be mounted on the upper half of the exhaust tubing with an angle of more than 10 deg due to condensation in the exhaust tubing.

Other things that needs to be considered for narrow band sensors are:

It is important that the location is right also with regards to distance due to the temperature drop in the exhaust gass < 600 F. To far away and your sensor may react to slow also the further away you mount it the slower it will react. It may also interpret this as a lean condition and start adding fuel. This would also be worse at idle due to lower exhaust temperature. Switching to closed loop may also be a problem. So if you are unsure of managing keeping within the limits of the sensor I would go for wide band or program it in open loop. Remember the narrowband is only accurate at around 14.7 :1 the rest is useless . Better safe then .......

What management system and sensor are you planning on using ?

Roar

Rwillia4 · #15 (**permalink**) 03-07-2007, 07:33 PM

I was planning on mounting mine inboard past the collector and before the glass pack. I'm not sure if I can get 10 degrees before interference with the body. Anyone know if this will work for a BDR? I understand water vapor can skew the reading but I would also assume that it would evaporate rather quickly with 1600F heat coming down the pipe.

pmfranke · #16 (**permalink**) 03-07-2007, 07:45 PM

mine is in the colector,before the muffler,on an edelbrock fi system.

#136 · #17 (**permalink**) 03-07-2007, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pmfranke

mine is in the colector,before the muffler,on an edelbrock fi system.

I'm also going with an edelbrock #3500 comes as acomplete kit. where exactly did you mount yuor o2 sensor? Bottom, side, top or angled up or down? Do you have photos? Also where did you put the fuel return line in the tank?136

DonC · #18 (**permalink**) 03-07-2007, 10:51 PM

I've just finished installing a Mass-Flo system on a big block and had several conversations with them about the sensor mounting. They were adamant about their requirement that it be 9-18 inches from the exhaust port. Had a sensor bung welded into the #1 and#5 primary pipes about 11 inches away from the exhaust port. Both are mounted straight up and both are hidden by the heat shields and can't be seen at a casual glance.
DonC

pmfranke · #19 (**permalink**) 03-08-2007, 09:32 AM

136 on the passenger side of the car, inboard , about 15* angle,so the wires are lower than the sensor inside the collector,its tucked in between the frame and the collector. rocks from the front tire could hit it , i think i'll make a guard. i used the vent tube for a return into the plastic gas tank and welded a new vent tube to the metal filler spout. pic's will take a couple of days , if you really need some. Peter.

Roar · #20 (**permalink**) 03-08-2007, 03:10 PM

looks like you are on the right track to finding a solution. a piece of advise before you buy the system. Ask what options you can buy for the system and then you will find out how complete the system really is. I bougt 3 "options" after I had installed mine having o wait 14 days for shipping to Norway every time.

(this was the period with sunnny days. I do not know what is included in your kit but the Holley kit did have several options Summit just dident inform me.