Help!!!!decisions, decisions

[RAZOR]

Would, appreciate some advice. I had decided to build a FFR but then went to spring fling, and got real confused . My wife, son, and I fell in love with the Classic Roadster, love the look, love the longer wheel base, impressed with overall quality. So later in the summer my son and I drove back to visit DV at his shop, spent a few hours there asking questions that I know DV has answered a thousand times, (thanks DV your enthusiasim is infectious). For those of you that have a CR tell me your satisfaction or not, would you build or buy another one? If you built yours how difficult was the build process? Thanks for any help, more questions to follow.

[dalola]

Razor,
Just read your post, but I'm on my way home. I'll comment on your questions further, hopefully when I get time tonight. Or, feel free to email me personally, at dalola@midohio.net

Also, check out our Ohio Cobra Club, under Local Clubs, at the top right of the page.

Dave

[Rogers Anderson]

LET ME TELL YOU ABOUT CR'S
I JUST COMPLETED MY FIRST COBRA IN JUNE OF THIS YEAR. I HAD STARTED IN DECEMBER 2000. I HAVE BEEN TO 5 CAR SHOWS THIS SUMMER AND TOOK FIRST PLACE, IN MY CLASS, AT ALL 5. I DON'T KNOW IF CAR SHOWS ARE YOUR THING BUT AT ALL 5 THERE WAS A SWARM OF GUAWKERS AROUND MY COBRA THE ENTIRE SHOW. ALSO, THE LAST SHOW I WAS COMPETING WITH A ERA 427 WITH NITROUS AND A FACTORY 5 302 AND STILL GOT FIRST. THE KIT IS SO SIMPLE I HAVE STARTED ANOTHER. THE TRICK IS NOT ONLY CHOOSING THE RIGHT KIT BUT BUYING ALL COMPONENTS IN CRATE FORM. I HAVE ALSO LOOKED AT THE SUPERFORMANCE BUT FOR THE MONEY AND FINISH PRODUCT, CLASSIC ROADSTERS REALLY HAS A GOOD QUALITY PRODUCT. I HAVE DECIDED TO GO WITH FRONT END, REAR END, ENGINE AND TRANNY ALL FROM DON SCOTT SO FAR I'M IMPRESSED. GOOD LUCK!

[Don]

Razor

Bought a Classic Roadsters Cobra that was built by Don Scott that included the 351W that he built. After looking for over two years, extremely satisified, met and/or exceeded every expectation.

Comes down to personal preference when it appears, from what you are personally looking for, everthing else is equal. Yes, no matter where I go, the Cobra attracts the attention, even if there are other vehicles such as Viper,Corvette, etc., present. Even the Harley owners give a thumbs up!

Would I have bought a different one, don't know. But , neither do I have any reason to start looking. Spring is coming, time is of the essence.

[dalola]

Ok, Razor, sorry for the delay. It's been a very busy weekend!

Here's my experience with my Classic.

I bought my Cobra last November(1 year ago), and it is my first Cobra. I did the usual research, etc..., and was ready to buy the kit, as I wanted to build it myself. Well, just as I was about to buy the kit from DV, he told me about this car, which was for sale. It was a car he built for a customer in '98. I liked the car a lot, and negotiated a price, and decided to buy a turnkey instead of build my own.

I really like the extra room in the Classic. I'm 6'4", and have a hard time fitting in many other kits. The only other I've sat in that actually had more room was a Superformance, which I fell in love with, but just couldn't afford. As far as the look, with the longer wheel base, it's personal choice. You don't really notice until you park beside a 90" model. The quality of the kit I feel is very good. I've had no problems with mine. It is quite heavy(for a Cobra), partly due to that 460 engine, but Classics are generally heavier than most other kits. (Mine is 2706lbs. w/o driver, but almost perfect balance corner to corner) The frame appears indestructable. Overall, I would have no problem recommending a Classic to anyone. I would say if you want to build your own, want the extra room in the cockpit, like the longer wheel base, it's a good choice.

The only other thing I might add. Probably more important than the kit, is the quality with which it is built. I think FFR is the cheapest kit on the market, and I've seen some of those that were crafted with skill and pride, and are beautiful. And, conversely, I've seen some of the high dollar kits that were absolutely pitiful, due to the builders lack of skills/knowledge/etc..

Hope this provides you some things to consider. Feel free to contact me via email if you have more questions, would like to see my car, etc..

Regards,
Dave
P.S. Don't forget to check out our Ohio Club!

[petek]

Razor,

see my web site on my CR Cobra build: http://www.birch.net/~petek/cobra

petek

[RAZOR]

Thanks guys really appreciate all the input. Its people like you that make Cobras even more enjoyable. Nothing like sharing what is the beginning of my second childhood, although my wife claims it is a mere extension of the first. Also thanks Dave for heads up on Ohio cobra club.
Rex

[Jack21]

I don't think you'll regret going with a CR over an FFR once you have the car finished and on the street. I have a CR. I've seen FFR's being built, and finished, and I wouldn't swap. FFR builders have seen my CR and have called it the Caddilac of Cobras.

Pros & cons. First time I looked at the IRS setup in the FFR, I about creamed my jeans in envy. First time I saw the late Mustang front suspension and brake setup on the FFR using all Cobra R 17" parts, (13" cross drilled rotors, 4 piston calipers)same thing. FFR has put some engineering into their kits to use more up to date components in the suspension and brake departments.

But. You can't put power brakes in an FFR. You can't put power steering in an FFR. The battery location. I'll leave that one alone. And FFR, like CR, describes, in detail, what donor to build it from. More on the "Donor" issue in a moment.

CR hasn't done any engineering upgrades at all since introducing the car in '90. It's a cash cow, period. Many of the components that were current when the car was designed are now obsolete, impossible to find, or just a bad idea to start with.

It will likely cost you more money, take you more time, and require more custom fabrication for a CR. But, you'll have a better car when you're through.

Rule #1. You don't build a $40,000 - $50,000 sports car with junkyard parts! CR, FFR, doesn't matter. If you do, you have a junk Mustang with all the reliability and maintenance headaches of your "Donor" when you're through.

Rule #2. Use the CR component shopping guide as a cross reference only. Don't buy any of it to put on your car without checking back here first. At least here, you have the benefit of folks who've been there, done that, some of whom are making a living at it.

Examples: Engine selection for street use consensus seems to be the 351W or 393W stroker. Nowhere in the documentation supplied by CR is this described, and there are peculiarities with the 351. What fits? What doesn't? And the T5 is a pretty decent trans to use if you use the T5Z. Z's weren't installed in production cars, so you have to get them new.

Front suspension & brakes. The Pinto & Mustang II was a piece of junk when it rolled off the assembly line 25 - 30 years ago. Do you really want to put this in your car??? There are better ways of doing this. Don & DV, has anyone found a way to graft the late Mustang spindle with appropriate upper & lower control arms to the CR? I could write a book on this part alone. You folks could (or have) too.

DV, you're about to introduce an IRS for the CR Cobra. Keep us posted, OK.

Chevette steering column. See Pinto comments above. Ididit makes a nice paintable steel, tilt column for CR Cobras. Looks nice in rattle can wrinkle black. Perfectly matches Lecarra steering wheel. Get the Borgeson (or Flaming River) shaft & joints. The shaft is collapsable so it, and not your rib cage, collapses if you hit something. And you need a 2" muffler clamp around the column near where it exits the firewall to keep it from moving around. The downside is you have to put the stalk mounted controls of the Chevette back on the dash.

And the list goes on, but you can get there from here.

[mikiec]

Yes,

You can put power brakes in an FFR

You can put power steering in an FFR

Mike

[dscott]

Razor, The CR Cobra has in fact gone through a few changes since it was introduced. Over the last few years a new small block frame has been added which gives more drivers foot room. The radiator setup has changed to use a Griffin aluminum and a Spal fan. Motor mounts were changed for the small block Ford to drop the engine for better hood clearance. The hood hinge setup has been updated. Door hinge mounting is improved. Header design has improved. The convertible top has a new easier header design. A new door release system. So the car is updated periodically. The new donor list has been updated to use Napa part #s.

The Mustang II setup is a good suspension. I have used and sold hundreds of them. There are more options available for that suspension than anything on the market. Stock stamped arms, tubular upper and lower arms, stainless, strutless, aluminum struts with heims, coil overs, air ride, 9", 11" 13" brakes are available. There are probably 20 companies making components for the Mustang II and most street rodders use it. In fact the street rodders were on to it before the kit industry. Good solid design.

The 351w engine uses everything that the 302 uses except for the headers. All other parts such as motor mounts, trans mount, bellhousing, hoses, wiring, etc. is the same. I know of no custom fabrication needed to build the car. Some people do modify things to suit thier own taste but nothing is required. The only thing that is getting really tough to find is the GM Chevette column. As Jack stated there are alternatives for this, Idiit, Flaming river, DV has a modified Column that works great. You do need to rewire some things for the aftermarket columns but guys like me or DV are always here to help.

Bottom line is the CR is a nice car and can be built to suit anyone. Jack is right, this club is a wealth of knowledge and anyone interested in a Cobra has come to the right place. Whatever you decide on your Cobra good luck and have fun.
Don

[Jack21]

Don't want to beat this one to death, but you see what we're trying to say.

If dead nuts originality is not a major concern, the CR is a better car when finished. When built properly, they look like they were driven off the Ford showroom floor, and they're built to last. These cars, had they been available in the '65 - '66 time frame, could have given Corvette a challenge in sales figures.

The '74 - '78 Mustang II front end was a decent enough design, but it has been redesigned by the aftermarket industry for street rods even better. Read the engineering assessment of the MII suspension on the Heidt's website for what to do and not do with the MII. Don't even think of getting parts from a salvage yard, if you can still find any parts.

I used tubular control arms and Carerra coil overs. Not that I'm crazy about supporting the entire weight of the front of car on two 7/16" bolts and bushings, but so far it seems to work, and the ride height is adjustable. Reluctantly gave in to this after cutting up too many sets of springs. I retained the strut rods with urethane bushings to limit fore & aft movement. The strut rod takes all the braking torque, and the CR frame where the control arms mount didn't seem strong enough unmodified, to take strut rodless control arms.

Virtually everyone today uses the 11" Grenada rotor & '78 - '83 mid sized GM caliper setup as a minimum. Stops my Pontiac OK. Used a 4 piston caliper upgrade for the Cobra and it stops OK too. With 17" wheels, there are even better options. But CR doesn't tell you this.

Power steering in a MII setup seemed to be the bane of street rodders and Cobra builders using the MII. The band aids were incredible. Reduced pressure relief valves, do-it-yourself pressure relief valves, adjustable by-pass valves, etc. Most gave up and went to manual. Andy Granitelli Racing (AGR) is a little specialty shop that does power steering setups. They have a high effort late Mustang power rack that overcomes these problems. The passengers side rack mount hole on the CR frame is slotted, and the late rack bolted right in. Concerned with upsetting the geometry as the rack centerline - mount is a little shorter with the late rack, I bolted it in UP with offset bushings. The MII rack is cast iron and weighs a ton. The late rack is cast aluminum and weighs a few pounds. Either a Ford or GM pump will now work. I used GM (also from AGR) because I had brackets already made.

I've wasted enough of your time, so I won't go into the drum rear brakes solution and others, but you get the point. Good car, but check here before you go component shopping. Perhaps it's time to put an updated CR component shopping guide options on one of our websites.