Viper V-10 in Classic Roadsters Kit.... - Page 3

COBRA427 · #41 (**permalink**) 10-10-2002, 06:43 PM

Jim,
I don't think you've told us what type of driving you intend to do with your Cobra. I really couldn't tell you just how much lighter the LS6 is than the V10, but it's got to be at least 200 less. For me I don't want to have 200 more lbs. up front if I don't have to.

I want my Cobra not only to be fast in a straight line, but also to brake and corner well, for that reason I feel less weight up front is an advantage in overall performance and handling. A lot of guys boast how big their motors are, I like the fact that my motor pumps out nearly 500hp from only 346ci, that's an efficient engine. Bottom line: it boils down to what makes you happy. Research all the data you can, then use the motor of your choice.

Bill E · #42 (**permalink**) 10-10-2002, 09:35 PM

We have two cars in the shop at the same build level one has an all AL 750 HP SB and is 1835 LB total. One wicked car. The utter is a Ford V10 triton behemoth and not to every ones taste, But when people come to the shop, that V10 is what they wont to Talk about. Bill E EMS

Excaliber · #43 (**permalink**) 10-11-2002, 01:19 AM

Makes perfect sense to me. Another awesome SB,,,,ho hum,,,been there done that, I'm sure it's fast as hell, yada yada yada.

A Ford V10? Hmmmm,,,,,wait a minute, I gotta check that thing out! Major "wow" factor there!

OK, in the end I would buy the SB. When the smoke has cleared PERFORMANCE in handling, acceleration, braking, speed is what I want over just a "wow" factor. But to each his own!

Ernie

Bill
I hope to check out your shop next time I'm in Redding, ('67-68 Enterprise High)!

750hp · #44 (**permalink**) 10-11-2002, 03:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Excaliber
When the smoke has cleared PERFORMANCE in handling, acceleration, braking, speed is what I want over just a "wow" factor.

Funny you should mention the smoke clearing..... here's an example of not only the engine bay WOW factor, but 10 cylinders of Dodge's finest in a smoking "WOW" display

Anyone know the guy in the hat???

Aussie Mike · #45 (**permalink**) 10-11-2002, 04:59 AM

Yep, Plenty of WOW there!

Don't get me wrong in what I've said earlier, I'm just justifying my own decision not only to you guys but myself as well. If I could have done it within my budget I would have liked to put in a Boss429 or something really radical.

Not many cars on the road get as much attention as a Cobra. If you want a stealthy car don't buy a Cobra. With that in mind I say build something that really stands out from the crowd.

At DVSFII walking around looking into all these engine bays was seriously cool. But after the engine overdose wears off you get bit complacent. What do we have here, another Windsor... Ho Hum another Sideoiler.... another 460...Hooly!! Dooly!! A V10! So if you can do it I say go for it!!

Cheers

petek · #46 (**permalink**) 10-11-2002, 08:19 AM

I'm still thinking that a Lotus 7 replica with a V10 mounted up front would be a hoot. Engine as a stressed member; no chassis up front, just mount everything to the engine block. Heck, no middle-chassis either, just hang everything off of the tranny.

Silly, but major WOW factor!

Excaliber · #47 (**permalink**) 10-11-2002, 08:59 AM

Pete,,,,,,I like it!

Ernie

Mr.Fixit · #48 (**permalink**) 10-11-2002, 10:02 AM

So they weigh 711 pounds with accessories. They have a billit crank (nice) there has to more info on them from you guys. I want to know what makes them special / different from all the other V-8's that have hardly changed in 50 years, but I am too lazy to go spend time on the viper boards.

Double Venom · #49 (**permalink**) 10-11-2002, 12:35 PM

Petek,

I'd be glad to design an build one for you

I'm sure we can find a way to fit you in our schedule!

Mr.Fixit...I've had numerous Viper motors torn down to the hone marks in the cylinders. I have yet to find any magic gremlins in one! Why it does what it does, I don't know. Basically it's simply a hi-tech Mopar 360 with a couple of extra hammers in it.

You just have to come east, maybe next years fling and let me arrange a ride for you. Obviously I have my choice of motors, from small blocks to stroked BB's. I've built and had them all, (except a Falconer!) I simply can not find a motor that is so strong, with so much torque and "instant launch" capability as the Dodge 488. And it blows away almost every competitor on a combination course. Why? I don't know, it just does!

You can ask many, many of our customers what I have told them over the years, "stay away from the BB's". But like so many things, time changes, technology rises and we all benefit! (Show me any Cobra, and I mean any Cobra, that can pull a 1.3 G on a 100' skid pad. (Ok, maybe JBL's ???

) Then take the same car, with the same tires and hit 128 in the 1/4 with no mods!

6lb. S/C, 100 hp Nitrous kit and you can get an honest 800 HP out of the same engine with no other mod's.

Come on out, take a ride...Bring your Mopar mechanic!

As far as the Triton Ford V-10... heavy, heavy, heavy, made for massive torque and no speed!

DV...Gawd, how I love these cars. We are so lucky!

JimP · #50 (**permalink**) 10-11-2002, 01:29 PM

DV... you get my email? Sent it yesterday.... Was hoping to get additional details on frame rail mods.

Thanks

Mr.Fixit · #51 (**permalink**) 10-11-2002, 01:49 PM

DV,
So it's pretty much a regular V-8 plus two cylinders, overhead cam (right?), good crank, and gobbs of midrange torque. With tuned intake, and more aluminum than cast iron. Nothin inside made you say, "Wow, look at this..." I never really got into mopar motors other than early hemi's, but now I am curious about this one.

Steven · #52 (**permalink**) 11-09-2002, 11:56 PM

I've been lucky enough to get a ride in DV I with DV and I have to say it does come out of the hole like a bat outta hell ---> oh and its stock. I dont know how, but DV has set the car up to transfer all that torq to the black top. I lifts the front wheels clean off the ground!! and keeps them there!!! I've never seen any other "stock" motor run better. Sounds pretty cool too!! Steven S.

Excaliber · #53 (**permalink**) 11-10-2002, 08:45 AM

Viper V-10 is NOT Over head cam! Pretty amazing HP\Torque numbers for an "old school" motor design.

Ernie

justa6 · #54 (**permalink**) 11-10-2002, 04:43 PM

I read your letter and wondered about the following...

"6lb. S/C, 100 hp Nitrous kit and you can get an honest 800 HP out of the same engine with no other mod's"

Are you saying that a 480+ cubic inch motor that is supercharged to 6 lb boost and has a 100 HP shot of nitrous is doing well to make 800 HP? And why the Nitrous. Can't raise the boost because of cast pistons with fairly high compression?

I mention this because I just got back from a BOP (Buick Old Pontiac) race here in Georgia. Unfortunately my 274 cubic inch 473 HP V6 broke a univeral joint after it made 10 runs in the 10's with two runs pulling the front wheel both off the line and on the 1-2 shift. The car that was the fastest at the above race also had a 274" V6 but with a Turbo (no nitrous but much boost). His car has Air Conditioning and Power steering, weighs (officially) 3600 lbs WITH driver. He turned 8.6 @ 160 MPH.

I just checked his HP on the following website:
www. prestage.com/carmath/

It comes out to 1118 HP. Now I'm not saying that the V10 isn't pretty neat but it sure seems to me that one is hanging an awful lot of weight in the front of a very small car in order to get not a whole lot of horsepower for that weight or put another way you should look at other engines that make more power but weigh less. Not recommending the Buick V6 at all but the V10 numbers are truly out of the 60's when a regular old 426 max wedge made virtually just as much power as a stock Viper motor. Not to mention the HEMI.

I believe "To each his own" but I'd LOVE to know the cost of your "recipe" ie Viper motor, blower, Nitrous on a dollar per HP basis.

Regards,

Double Venom · #55 (**permalink**) 11-10-2002, 07:54 PM

Bob, Bob, Bob,

I'm not saying the 488 is the best, I never said it was the lightest. I was mis understood, and reading it back, understandably so. I meant use a blower OR nitrous and you get that kind of HP. Use them both and you really do get into the 1k HP range.

John Spina and I have known each other for years. He runs the EM white and red striped Cobra, with a Buick GN V-6 with turbo's on it. John was hangin right with us at Run N Gun, actually may have been gaining on us a little, hard to tell when he was coming down the straight and Jay was just starting to slow for turn 1, when John cranked up the boost by accident blowing his head gaskets. But I'm here to tell you that little car wold fly!

Honda's, Toyota's and others are making as much and actually more HP than we do with a stock DV.

Once again, read the "weight" issues. The 488 is lighter than a BB by far, even with aluminum heads and is only slightly heavier than a small block.

Fellas, the Viper engine is a choice, just like all the others. We build what the customer wants. I would expect no less from everyone here...build what YOU want!

To the guy that out races us, I applaud you and shake your hand. To the guys we outrace, better luck next time. But, lets do it again and again and.....

DV

Aussie Mike · #56 (**permalink**) 11-11-2002, 02:21 AM

Pete & Ernie,

How about this... http://www.x7cars.com

LS1 Gen3 Chev in a Lotus 7 replica.

Cheers

Double Venom · #57 (**permalink**) 11-11-2002, 04:23 AM

Ohh, Now we're getting serious!

DV...That deserves another cookie

OZCOBRA · #58 (**permalink**) 11-11-2002, 04:32 AM

This X7 is an Exocet Missle you should see this thing go, a very well sorted car blistering acceleration,awesome on the track in street trim and stops on a dime.
With the exchange rate the way it is you guys need some of these!!!!!

justa6 · #59 (**permalink**) 11-11-2002, 05:22 AM

I'm just giving you a bad time. I've also known John Spina for quite a while. His car is very nice. In fact I built mine as a NON Turbo specifically to not copy John's. My intention was to build a "contender" for Run & Gun that was a normally aspirated V6.

In the drag racing part it isn't the fastest car there but its not too far out of contention. A 150 shot of Nitrous would put it very close to the 9's at 140. However, in talking to a lot of folks they think I shouldn't do it. That its more impressive to run 10's consistantly with no "power adder". What do you think?

Anyway, I need to work on the Road Race and Autocross portion of the program so the car can compete. Actually the car is fine its me that need "work"

I do think that the Viper motor is "way cool" as anything "different" is always nice. It sounds like your conversion
is very well thought out. I just didn't get the blower and Nitrous but 800 HP with only 6lbs of boost is VERY impressive.

Have you ever heard of Mark Williams drive lines? I've been told that he makes of drive train stuff that is used by a lot of Pro stock (ie fast) cars and that his stuff is bullit proof. I don't like drive shaft problems and am hoping that the universal failure was caused by a worn pinion yoke. Not to mention dropping the clutch at 7,000 RPM with slicks

Regards,

Excaliber · #60 (**permalink**) 11-11-2002, 08:54 AM

Aussie Mike, I always did have a weakness for the Lotus 7 cars. What a rocket with that LS engine. Thanks.

Justa6, It's very cool not having the power adders on your motor. I always thought the V6 was fast BECAUSE it had them. I see it's a helluva of a motor in "stand alone" trim!

DV, I love that phrase, Double Venom, lol. It makes the Viper engine seem so "natural" to be in a Cobra!

Ernie