T56, Classic Roadsters....

JimP · #1 (**permalink**) 10-14-2002, 07:09 AM

Will the T56 transmission fit in the Classic Roadster BB Frame without modifications to the frame rails? (with a SB V8). If not does anyone know if the Richmond Gear 6spd will fit any better? I also read other posts that indicated the Shift arm was too far aft with the T56. Is this a problem in the Classic Roadsters Cobra or just other, short wheelbase kits?

Jim

dscott · #2 (**permalink**) 10-14-2002, 07:15 AM

I'm not sure about the T56 but the Richmond needs to have the frame notched for clearance. The shifter location should not be a problem, it needs to be located as far to the rear as possible. This isn't a problem wit the CR, plenty of room.
Don

Double Venom · #3 (**permalink**) 10-14-2002, 01:38 PM

Jim,
Sent you an e-mail. Hope it helps.
DV
PS..Don, the T-56 requires major mods to the CR's frame.

JimP · #4 (**permalink**) 10-14-2002, 03:17 PM

Don,

Can you indicate what would need to be modified to fit the Richmond Gear 6spd? Just trying to determine if the Richmond is easier to fit than a T56. If it's a minor notch to fit I may pay the extra for the Richmond for less modifications. Also, you know of any dimentions that show width for T56 or Richmond Transmissions? Can only find length measurements on the web.

Thanks,

Jim

Aussie Mike · #5 (**permalink**) 10-14-2002, 04:49 PM

Jim,

Here is a usefull link to a site that gives pictures and dimensions on the T56.

http://www.sallee-chevrolet.com/BorgWarner/t56pics.html

I just checked and it doesn't include any width dimensions. If you like I can run a tape measure over mine.

I did the shifter mod to my T56 because the Australian T56 has a very rearward shifter location (more so than the one in the above link). I also did it because it was a bit of fun and a challenge. Half the fun and satisfaction of the Cobra (fir me at least) is the building of it.

Here is the shifter relocation thread.

Tremec T56 Shifter relocation

The Richmond box was out of my league pricewise and T56s come up regularly seccond hand. Mine had about 15000 miles on it and when I stripped it I found it was perfect inside.

Cheers

Double Venom · #6 (**permalink**) 10-14-2002, 07:07 PM

Mike, (Please send me your address - I have no idea what I have done with my mind or your address!)

How did your original T56 thread get past me. One georgeous piece of work fella! Do you know what kind of market you would have here in the States with that Mod?
Beautifull, simply beautifull.

DV...This IS what this forum is all about!

Aussie Mike · #7 (**permalink**) 10-14-2002, 08:21 PM

DV,

Coming from you I'll take that as a real compliment.

Mr Fixit Infered that it could be a popular mod in the US. I'll be quite happy to do local gear boxes and if I guess if people want to send me the parts I could do it as well. The only problem with sending me the parts is it still needs a fair bit of dissasembly/assembly on the box.

I know you probably use these T56 boxes regularly behind the Viper V10s in your cars. If you like I can send some larger more detailed pics of what I did so you can do your own. It's not that difficult to do the mod, just a bit fiddly and you will need a mill for some of it.

Ed, you can Email me @ lm.murphy@bigpond.com

Jim,

I suspect the Richmond Box will end up being wider than the T56. My reasoning is that the T56 is a single rail design with the shift rail running down the top of the box. The Richmond box has an external shifter mechanism that hangs off the side of the box and will add to the width.

Cheers

JimP · #8 (**permalink**) 10-15-2002, 05:31 AM

No I is confuzed again...

DV, you indicate that the problem is that you can't get the stick back far enough yet Aussie Mike has a fix to move the stick forward on the trans because it's too far aft. This must be a problem for other Cobra's and not the Classic?.

Aussie Mike, thanks for the Sallee-Chev link. I had been to that sight many times but somehow missed that link with measurements. That's going to help alot.

As far as the T56 fitting, I have no doubt that DV is correct but I'm not getting measurements that make any sense. The narrowest part of my frame rails is 6" which is below the parking brake. The frame rails get wider from their and at the location of the stick (based on where I see it in other classic pics) is at the point where the frame rails are 9 inches apart. According to the T56 measurements it's 8 3/4 wide at least 6 inches in front of that and gets narrower aft. On my frame, 6" in front of that is almost 12" wide between the frame rails. I think I'll try to make some cardboard mock ups of the engine and transmission layouts to see where the problem is. Anyone have any other information?

Also, I can see very little difference between the Richmond 6sp and the 5sp richmond dimentionally. I thought people were using the 5spd without modifying the frame rails so any modification for the 6sp should be minor. Correct Don? Can you provide any Pic's for me?

Thanks,

Jim

750hp · #9 (**permalink**) 10-15-2002, 05:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Aussie Mike
It's not that difficult to do the mod, just a bit fiddly

Mike, doing up my shoe laces is not that difficult, just a bit fiddly. Re-engineering the shifter on a trans that costs big $$$ in Australia is a fantastic effort. Good one!!!

Ahhh.... Aussie lateral thinking and enginuity!!!! Why wasn't I blessed with any of it ???

Double Venom · #10 (**permalink**) 10-15-2002, 05:42 AM

Jim,
Sorry for the confusion. Aussie Mike is talking about the actual location of the "shifter box" on the tranny. I am talking about the actual shifter "stick".

Using the unmodified shifter location, a "Stick" has to be made to move the "knob" forward.

The best I can tell you is, IF you are sure you are going to do this, simply buy the tranny and the motor, bolt them up and then drop it in the frame. The clearance problems will then become immediately noticeable! You will have to modify for the starter, the bell housing, and the sensors Mike was talking about.

It will fit, but plan for electrical connections, (They too will hit), a wiring harness and fuel lines.

DV

Aussie Mike · #11 (**permalink**) 10-15-2002, 06:26 AM

Just to give you an indication where the shifter comes out on a Classic Revival (different car to a Classic Roadsters). Here is a pic pf Sloth's Classic Revival with LS1 & T56. He had an engineering shop do the shifter relocation mod on the gear box (big $$$). As you can see because the shifter comes out a lot further forward it will need to lean back towards the driver slightly rather than leaning forward like the originals.

I agree with DV, Buy the engine and gearbox and make it fit. DV has done it lots of times so it can be done. I've seen a couple of his cars, simply magnificent.

Remember anything can be achieved with a big angle grinder, a welder and some patience.

Heres to V10 powered Cobras!

dscott · #12 (**permalink**) 10-15-2002, 06:59 AM

The Richmond trans has the external shifter and the rod for reverse will not clear the frame. I had to notch it about 5" long and the height of the frame rail. I had to go in about 1 1/2". After the frame was boxed the shifter worked great. Pretty simple mod. Since I haven't used the T56 I don't know where the tailshaft winds up. With a 351 and a Tremec 3550 the tailshaft is about 6" forward of the e-brake tunnel.
Don

JimP · #13 (**permalink**) 10-15-2002, 11:55 AM

I found an easy way to check the T56 transmission fit... I printed out the picture of the transmission from the link above. They had a nice picture of the T56 from the top. I then measured the frame rails to determine the angles of the rails. Using another piece of paper I drew a center line down it and drew a cone simulating the frame rails. Then overlayed the paper over the picture of the transmission aligning the center line of my cone with the input/output shaft of the transmission. Was able to move the transmission in and out of the cone to determine exactly where it will hit the frame rails. I also was able to calculate scale of the picture based on all the measurements on the picture and I now have an approximate measurement of where the stick would be in relation to the drive shaft tunnel. The fit was actually very good. It obviously needs to be put as far aft as possible when using the V10 and I haven't accounted for the bellhousing or starter but I'm much happier now knowing where the interference will be.

This brings up another question. This T56 picture is that of a Camaro/Firebird T56. How much different is the Viper T56 dimentionally? Is it the same? Or longer?

Jim

sam-tip · #14 (**permalink**) 12-31-2002, 07:54 AM

Hope this helps. I just installed a 97 LT1 Camaro/Firebird with T56 into my 92 CR. Great fit. No problems with frame. Plent of room. I may need to trim the tunnel cover a little but no big deal. Only half an inch. Just enough so it will not rub.

BOSS MIKE · #15 (**permalink**) 12-31-2002, 10:27 AM

I ALSO HAVE A 351W WATH A T56 SIX SPEED TRANSMISSION IN MY CLASSIC ROADSTER. THE SHIFTER COMES OUT AT THE SAME LOCATION AS A T5, AND THE TAILSHAFT IS JUST.750BACK.

MY TRANS CAME FROM D&D PERFORMANCE IN MICHIGAN, IT IS THE SAME TRANS THEY PUT IN A COBRA R MUSTANG.

HOPE THIS HELPS.

JimP · #16 (**permalink**) 01-13-2003, 01:35 PM

Just got my transmission today. I deceided on a Dodge Viper T56. The gearing with the tire and rear end gear was perfect for my setup plus it's rated at 550+ Torque!

Others may have seen my active post on the Viper V-10 in a Classic roadster. Because of the Model year change and unavailability of the V-10 I continued to ponder my decision. I ended up ordering a 427 stroked 351 all forged/roller from Coast High Performance and also ordered the Hilborn injection stack manifold system without the controller. I'm planning to use an SDS controller. I can't wait to get the engine in the car! I let everyone know how it fits! Here are a few pic's, I wasen't expecting the viper logo on the transmission... nice touch!

JimP · #17 (**permalink**) 01-13-2003, 01:37 PM

Nice Touch!

Double Venom · #18 (**permalink**) 01-13-2003, 02:49 PM

Gentlemen,
Let me jump back in here for a minute. I have heard from at least two CR's owners who put the T-56 in without any or very lilttle trouble.

I had to ponder this for days and finally have come to a conclusion. The reason we have to do so much modification to the inner frame rails is because we set the transmission so far back in the frame! Two more cylinders worth!

Since we've only installed the T-56 with our Viper engines it places the tail shaft almost all the way back to the emergency brake bracket. (Our driveshafts are right around 17 inches long!)

So...I guess I should let the guys that have installed the T-56 behind and 8 clyinder tun with this thread.

DV...June is soooo close

JimP · #19 (**permalink**) 01-13-2003, 03:06 PM

DV,

Yea, I assumed that's what you must have been thinking once I checked the measurement and put 2 and 2 together. After researching the V-10 it became obvious that you can't push the extra 2 cyl's forward to get the V-10 in, you have to add those behind the existing V-8 thus the completely redesigned firewall and transmission to frame interference and alot of work, as you well know. Thanks for your input, it really helped in making my decision.

Jim