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Kirkham Motorsports

 
 
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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 06-23-2003, 04:18 PM
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You are absolutely correct Ron doesn't build new Cobras but, he has his business re-manifacturing his older ones and they are very nice.

When it takes guts to tell the truth in the face of non-belief and false statements by makers, I will be there. RS you should know that about me by now.

I do believe there are many good Cobras made today, I personally do not believe the FFR is one of them. However that said, if someone want to buy and build one, thats fine with me, they have that right but I personally perfer not have a Cobra replica rather than a poorly engineered and parted out car.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 06-23-2003, 06:13 PM
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To each their own. I have a FFR and love it, but am the first to admit that the quality of a FFR build rests solely in the hands of the builder and (if used) the body shop. There are some very nice FFRs that are very high quality cars, and then there are some that were slapped together and didn't come out so well.

Take a look at Tood Buttrick's car if you doubt what I'm saying. Mine is pretty nice too. :P

There are several FFR pro builders in So. Cal. Roger Stine in Dana Point comes to mind, as well as Dave's Performance in Temecula. I know I'm forgetting at least one other.

If I had unlimited funds I may or may not have gone with FFR. I sure as hell would have considered Kirkham very seriously. Gotta love that aluminum skin.
  #18 (permalink)  
Old 06-23-2003, 07:22 PM
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Please understand I'm not condemning anyone for what they like or what they build. I'm sure your FFR is pleasing to you, and I agree the build has a high degree to do with the overall quality of the finished product, but no matter how good the builder is they cannot overcome the inherent design. Maybe the newer frame design is better or the Spec racer is somehow better.

But when you are finished and youíve spent your money, it is still a FFR. I have serious considerations personally about the design of the chassis and including the so-called stressed skin construction techniques employed, those Iíve seen and have assisted in building should have almost twice the number of rivets to be classified as a true stress-skin semi-monocock chassis.

The bodies I have had experience with were flimsy and obvious had major quality control shortcomings in laying up of the body. Both of the projects I assisted with were tweaked, bent and never fit over the frame correctly. I also hate the attachment method of the body with bolts going through the waste-band of the car sort of hidden behind the side pipes, (but not really). I personally dislike this approach.

Like I said; Iím not knocking your personal replica, but the short falls in the over all FFR Cobra replica design and are unacceptable to me personally. I have no personal ax to grind with the FFR folks, I think they are building a poor product comparing to the others on the market. That is true from my experience and point of viewas I see it

I agree a Kirkham Cobra replica is simply the best made, then or now. Iím gonna crawl back in my hole now and await the incoming. HeHeHe.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 06-23-2003, 09:10 PM
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I have heard one or two people claim that the aluminum panels add significantly to the structural integrity of the vehicle, but I've never heard FFR claim this. I believe the frame is equal to any other on the market. There are, of course, significant differences between the Mark I and Mark II frames. I didn't experience any feeling of flimsyness with the body. Perhaps you have not looked at a FFR closely in the past year or two?

I've never seen real evidence that the FFR frame is either superior or inferior to anyone else's. I'd be interested in actual proof, if anyone has any, otherwise it's just more rhetoric.

I agree about the bolts behind the pipes being a bit of an eyesore. There are methods of hiding those if it bothers you.

Anyway, I think what you are saying is that FFR is a poor replica for your needs/desires. I can't argue with that, as I don't think any one car can meet everyone's needs/desires. We both agree that Kirkham makes a fine replica, but it doesn't meet my needs because it costs far more than I can afford to spend on a hobby. For someone with a lot more disposable income than myself, it might fit the bill nicely. That doesn't mean I go around saying Kirkham makes a poor product because it doesn't pull my trigger, dig?
  #20 (permalink)  
Old 06-23-2003, 09:29 PM
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I agree with most of what you have presented and there may have been improvements made. You are correct in that the FFR doesn't meet my needs in any way. But it doesn't mean it doesn't float your boat, that's fair to say.

I'm a mechnical (auto) engineer with knowledge far beyond my intelect, I freely admit that, but I have very high standards when I strap a race car on my back and hang everything out in turn nine!

I have seat time in many race cars over the years including Cobra replicas and IMSA racers. I guess other than the engineering & quality issues the FFR just isn't a good fit in the cockpit for me and I'm not just talking comfort.

Maybe sometime I can see your FFR and I might have a change of opinion. I have a fondness for a Kirkham myself and it's well over my abilities at this time, but there are some very nice Uniques' and a few others on the used market that I feel better about I like the firmness of feel of the Unique and ERA over any of the mid-priced replicas.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 07-31-2003, 04:45 AM
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Hello to you all in Orange Cal.

Good to see the debate is alive there also on what car or kit is the better.

We have just been discussing this issue on the Australian forum.

Churchy contributed to or started the debate.

I will be in California in early October for a few days and then I head over to St.Louis for the Run N Gun. Will be back in California later in October.

Will try and catch up. Would love to meet a few of you and check the cars out.

kni-time@bigpond.com is my Email. Drop me a line if there is anything on that Ishould try and make it to whilst there.

Cheers must go

Bernie
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