CSX2459R - A Tribute to Lew Florence and Jamie Bargelt

[PDUB]

Been working on my project for a bit - CSX 2459 tribute build - come along for the ride!

Part 1: The Saga Begins...



More to come, soon... no peeking!

[PDUB]

Here is another installment:


Part-2-Project-Restart-and-a-Surprise!

[Harpoon PV2]

Well, you are still way ahead of me, even with all your setbacks! I first saw a Cobra at the old Tucson dragstrip, in 1966. I didn't know anything about them, but I heard guys saying it was faster then any Ferrari, and since I had ridden in a Ferrari at my parents shop, I thought wow. I was more interested in the Green Hornet car, plus, there was some nut who was going to jump 10 Dodge cars. He was so dumb, he couldn't even spell Evil correctly!

Finally, in 1975 I bluffed my way into test driving a late model 289 Cobra. It was $5,500, mine as well bean $2.5 million, I didn't have either, but I was hooked! Now with a little luck, I will end up with a small block kit or replica next year. Not a 100% sure which one, but one thing for sure, I will be smiling as much as that dumb punk teenager back in 1975.
Good luck on your USRRC car, you have earned some good Karma after all your bad luck!

[PDUB]

Thanks Harpoon! Let me know if you want any detailed info. I hope you are right about karma!

[1985 CCX]

Paul
Start adding pics oh

[PDUB]

They are coming, Jeff! Couple more posts...

[PDUB]

OK, here we go with another installment:


Part-3-The-Color

[PDUB]

Well now, let's get down and dirty with some body work in preparation for transforming the FIA into a USRRC car!


Part-4-The-Body-Transformation


Enjoy!!

[Harpoon PV2]

I like your choice of the USRRC car! I remember when both Contemporary and Unique came out with their FIA cars with or without luggage bumps. I wanted an FIA with bumps. Now, knowing the FIA cars never won any race outright, and the USRRC cars did so much better, I would say, you are on the right track!

[peterpjb]

the FIA Cobras won the international FIA GT world championship
(in case it matters), and they didn’t had always the suitcase bumps…

[Harpoon PV2]

Originally Posted by peterpjb

the FIA Cobras won the international FIA GT world championship
(in case it matters), and they didn’t had always the suitcase bumps…

Actually, they won the GT Championship Division III over 2000cc. Ferrari took the Prototype Championship. Cobra's only had one first place win in any FIA races, 1963 Bridgehampton, driven by Dan Gurney. Besides Ferrari finishing before them, Porsha 356 2000cc, Abarth-Simca 1300cc and Alfa Giulia TZ 1600cc cars finished ahead of Cobra's on a regular bases. As Alan Mann, who gave Ford the 1965 class win said, "don't forget that Enzo Ferrari wasn't even looking in our direction that year, if we'd been faced with a serious Ferrari factory effort we wouldn't have known what hit us.

[Kane Rogers]

Originally Posted by Harpoon PV2

Actually, they won the GT Championship Division III over 2000cc. Ferrari took the Prototype Championship. Cobra's only had one first place win in any FIA races, 1963 Bridgehampton, driven by Dan Gurney. Besides Ferrari finishing before them, Porsha 356 2000cc, Abarth-Simca 1300cc and Alfa Giulia TZ 1600cc cars finished ahead of Cobra's on a regular bases. As Alan Mann, who gave Ford the 1965 class win said, "don't forget that Enzo Ferrari wasn't even looking in our direction that year, if we'd been faced with a serious Ferrari factory effort we wouldn't have known what hit us.

Shelby contested the GT championship, not the prototype class. I've never seen that quote ever from Alan Mann. I'd love to have confirmation of that. Fact is, Ferrari never stood a chance in a straight-up GT fight against Shelby in 1965. Or in 1964 for that matter. That's why Ferrari had the Italian sanctioning body cancel Monza that year.

[Harpoon PV2]

Originally Posted by Kane Rogers

Shelby contested the GT championship, not the prototype class. I've never seen that quote ever from Alan Mann. I'd love to have confirmation of that. Fact is, Ferrari never stood a chance in a straight-up GT fight against Shelby in 1965. Or in 1964 for that matter. That's why Ferrari had the Italian sanctioning body cancel Monza that year.

Page 115 of F. Wilson McComb's book AC (Shelby) Cobra. He knew Alan and many of the racers who were there for the 1965 GT Division III Champion ship. Carrol was banned by Ford from all the European FIA races except for Le Mans, where Mann's entry, piloted by Gentleman Jack Sears and Dick Thompson, The Flying Dentist, was the only Cobra and only Ford to finish! Their car had been in two crashes and would show oil pressure for only a few seconds each time the driver accelerated! Sears finally pitted, and said it was hopeless, Mann responded, "but we've got to try and finish one Ford at least," then said, "you can do it, just drive the bloody thing on it's oil pressure." Sears replied, "I totally disagree with you, but of course I'll do what you say." Mann later said of Jack, "he could have blown it on the Mulsanne any time, but he just sat there doing what he was told for the rest of the race," Alan added, "now that's discipline."

Ford and Shelby bragged about the 65 season, clamming the Cobra had won the FIA Championnat du Monde des Constructeurs, only one problem with that, the series had ceased to exist some 6 months before the first tube was cut for CSX2000. Then again, they claimed they "beat Europe's best!" Winning 9 races outright. Only one Cobra won an FIA race outright, at Bridgehampton, piloted by Dan Gurney!

[1ntCobra]

Originally Posted by Harpoon PV2

Actually, they won the GT Championship Division III over 2000cc. Ferrari took the Prototype Championship. Cobra's only had one first place win in any FIA races, 1963 Bridgehampton, driven by Dan Gurney. Besides Ferrari finishing before them, Porsha 356 2000cc, Abarth-Simca 1300cc and Alfa Giulia TZ 1600cc cars finished ahead of Cobra's on a regular bases. As Alan Mann, who gave Ford the 1965 class win said, "don't forget that Enzo Ferrari wasn't even looking in our direction that year, if we'd been faced with a serious Ferrari factory effort we wouldn't have known what hit us.

I think it is more likely Ferrari knew that they didn't have a car to compete with the Daytona Coupes for 1965 so they did not bother. Ferrari would have likely lost in 1964 if they had not canceled the last race when the Daytonas were actually competing against the Ferrari GTOs.

For 1965 Alan Mann just seemed to need to show up with the cars and not bother to push the Daytonas hard to win. So being beaten by smaller displacement cars is understandable when Alan just wanted the cars to finish the races. On the other hand Bob Bondurant wanted to actually race and go for the overall wins, but Alan did not want that.

[Harpoon PV2]

Originally Posted by 1ntCobra

I think it is more likely Ferrari knew that they didn't have a car to compete with the Daytona Coupes for 1965 so they did not bother. Ferrari would have likely lost in 1964 if they had not canceled the last race when the Daytonas were actually competing against the Ferrari GTOs.

For 1965 Alan Mann just seemed to need to show up with the cars and not bother to push the Daytonas hard to win. So being beaten by smaller displacement cars is understandable when Alan just wanted the cars to finish the races. On the other hand Bob Bondurant wanted to actually race and go for the overall wins, but Alan did not want that.

Ferrari thought that Shelby had gotten the 427 cars Homologated, and they would put a Daytona body on the cars. What Enzo didn't know, the FIA had gotten wise to Carrol and him and demanded to see the 100 cars, which neither had! The reason the Daytona's were so slow, was the 289 engines. Mann would get the engines from Shelby, then send them to Stuart Mathieson, to have them rebuilt, then after every race they would junk the engines and repeat the above process. Even then, the cars had to stay below 6,500 rpm. Even then, the privately entered Ferrari's gave them a hard time, hence, Mann's comment on being glad Ferrari wasn't looking at them! Alan was glad he didn't have to race the 427s. No, Bob only did that once, then he became very disciplined, which paid off when he took the checkered flag at Reims, finishing fifth overall, Sears came in second with only 7 cylinders, and clinched the Class III Championship, plus Mann won 100 bottles of Campaign from Jabby Crombae for a bet that Sears couldn't finish! Bob's codriver Schlesser tried to race but Mann new the Championship was everything so threatened to replace him, he slowed down, but his wife was furious and threw a Champaign bottle at Alan's head. Mann was a better team manager then Shelby. He could get drivers to do what ever it took to get more points, Shelby would have won in 64, if he had finished more cars, instead of having broken cars every where.

[PDUB]

...no lumpy trunk for me!

[xb-60]

Originally Posted by PDUB

Been working on my project for a bit - CSX 2459 tribute build....

2459? So a roadster dash then?
Looking forward to the build .....similar(-ish) to mine.

Cheers!
Glen

[PDUB]

Originally Posted by xb-60

2459? So a roadster dash then?
Looking forward to the build .....similar(-ish) to mine.

Cheers!
Glen

Yes, Glen, 2459 had a street dash in it. See the following thread that has several photos of the cockpit:

My late father owned 2 cobras CSX2119 and raced CSX2459

I purchased a street dash for the project from Drew Serb. It is a nice piece, but does not fit the Unique, as the column is in a slightly different spot. Will need to work that out over time. May just go with the stock FIA dash in the short term, so I can get to driving, and leave that as an upgrade project. I will be using a temporary engine, as well... need to save some stamps for the Weber setup!

[xb-60]

Paul, do the changes to the dash panel now and change it to what you really want. Much easier now than having to remove a dash later and fit another one.
If you have a good reason to mod the street dash (which you do), the incentive to accomodate the changes is much stronger now than it might be further down the track.

Cheers!
Glen

[Alfa02]

This race program, brings up a LOT great memories about Westwood, Lew, and all the races here in the PNW (My Father & I both raced here in the PNW). Lew was a well-known driver (All his race cars were Yellow) and always ran at the front of the pack, usually ran Porsche's (356, 904, 906). I may have a photo of Lew's Cobra in Yellow, I'll check. Westwood (Mountain High Racing) was built on the side of a mountain (Hence the name), and it ALWAYS rained, and or snowed there My first senior (licensed) race was there, running in a pack of FF's (Formula Ford) in the rain, is something you never quite forget Thank you PDUB for the memories. Cheers TommyRot. P.S. Foothill Ford was in Issaquah Wa. at base of the Cascade mountain range.