427 engine mounts. engine location

Danielg · #1 (**permalink**) 04-30-2011, 08:50 PM

My understanding is the engine is parallel to the frame, ie the oil pan. And if you were to set a straight end flat across the frame rails, effectively the engine elevation would be that, sitting on this straight edge at the pan lip. and 5/8 to the passenger side.
Apparently my frame is set up for a small block or???? Using the FE mounts the engine is about 1" to high in the front making it on a big angle and the engine will not even cradle all the way down.
I have a extra set of Contemporary FE pedastals and they appear about 1" shorter and the mount holes face rearward, the ones on the car face forward, so the engine sits to far forward.
so before I hack this thing apart I was hoping someone would agree or disagree with my thoughts.
Also, if my measurement are correct, I may take my race mount pedastals off my chromemoly frame.
Any suggestions would be great.
Thanks
Daniel

mickmate · #2 (**permalink**) 04-30-2011, 09:09 PM

I just corrected a motor out of location. I have set a few up of these with engine mounts. You'll note the angle of the carb pads is to make them close to level when the motor is positioned in the chassis. I think you'll find it's 3 degrees on originals and also should match your pinion angle. Check your pinion angle I think you'll find it's close to 4.5 deg on the CCX. I set them up with the pan through to air cleaner installed and get the air cleaner as close to the underside of the hood scoop as I can and the oil pan between and protected by the frame rails. I line up the headers with the side pipe holes also. There are a couple of other dimensions to check as well.

Danielg · #3 (**permalink**) 04-30-2011, 09:21 PM

Mickmate,
Thanks for the input, brings up a question....Pinion angle. I just installed George's rear suspension ( cobra racing.com) and it fits very tight. and the top of the center section is not plum with the frame pad. the rear suspension is parallel to the rails, creating a wedge gap between the diff and mounting pad.
Is the rear assembly supposed to be leaning back, so to speak at 3.5 deg? the CCX frame appears everthing to be plum and square.
Daniel

Michael4yah · #4 (**permalink**) 05-09-2011, 11:03 AM

Really interesting topics, anyone know about the pinion angle??

FWB · #5 (**permalink**) 05-09-2011, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mickmate

I just corrected a motor out of location. I have set a few up of these with engine mounts. You'll note the angle of the carb pads is to make them close to level when the motor is positioned in the chassis. I think you'll find it's 3 degrees on originals and also should match your pinion angle. Check your pinion angle I think you'll find it's close to 4.5 deg on the CCX. I set them up with the pan through to air cleaner installed and get the air cleaner as close to the underside of the hood scoop as I can and the oil pan between and protected by the frame rails. I line up the headers with the side pipe holes also. There are a couple of other dimensions to check as well.

nick,
the carb pads on 427's are at an angle. to position a motor correctly, like a factory car, not necessarily a cobra, the motor should be level according to the pan rails or the front and rear top rails the manifold sits on. the idea is the carbs are at an angle when the car is at rest. under acceleration the suspension squats and the carbs(float bowls) then get level......with the whole motor at an angle, you could make oil and water in the motor do weird things.....
as far as small block to big block there is only a slight difference in the frame mounting ( originally had a small block in mine) elongating of the mounting hole for the big block mount is all that is really necessary. now this of course goes out the window if you can't shut the hood.....and based on using factory ford motor mounts.......

Danielg · #6 (**permalink**) 05-09-2011, 06:04 PM

Good info
I believe the rear end does not, or is not supposed to have any pinion angle. Why is because it is fixed, it is very difficult to achieve any anti squat charicteristics with IRS. level is what is best. However.....as you suspension travels up or down it can change depending on your design, thats when it gets tricky. I now have George's rear suspension, and the rear end/control arms are parrallel, ie level to the frame.
The theory of pinion angle I think applies to a rear end that will twist on it's springs, so to speak. I made my original frame off this theory also, the engine is level to the frame, and the rear end.....BUT offset elevation to create driveshaft angle.

Okay, back to engine position, I have mine I think done, the existing mount will not work, still not sure what they go to. So I will use mine.
New question, my rearend back from George, cobra racing, is not the one I sent him, I guess mine did not work with all the brake stuff. So....the differential mount pad is not parallel to the frame or control arms, does everyone modify the pad, or just make a wedge shim?

Also, the front suspension seams odd, with car at the correct ride height , the frame bottom almost 6 1/2" of the ground, the front control arms are significantly pointed at an upward angle, most all race suspension when weighted are about level.
Any one have pictures of theres to compare?
Thanks
Daniel

mickmate · #7 (**permalink**) 05-09-2011, 08:14 PM

I agree most factory motors mounted level in the frame with the carb pad tilted forward in performance applications to keep float levels somewhat close under acceleration. The CCX's and the originals both have a pinion angle and the same or similar angle on the drivetrain. True this gives the rear hub carriers a caster angle with Jag suspension but it's nowhere near the rear upright caster angle on the originals. On your front suspension the angle you see on the lower arms is the angle of the arm itself. The angle your concerned with is the line between the ball joints and pivot points. That line should be close to level with the ground at ride height and the tie rods should be pretty much parallel to the pivot point line to minimise bump steer. It looks fairly close from your pic. You might want something a little more rugged for a shim than the pencil ;-)

Danielg · #8 (**permalink**) 05-09-2011, 08:53 PM

mickmate,
You are awesome! the pencil is at max torq spec! any more she's going to have to be resharpened!
Obviously it's there for size visual....
But really, is that gap adressed how? And if I bolt it up flush...I would have about 10 deg laying back.

Make sense about the front, thank you.
I have some shots of my fuel tank, I'll post the in a PM to you in a few days, you might get a kick out of it.

Thanks again
Daniel