DV, by DV

[Mike Braatz]

JP and Rick --
All I can say is-- "there was a day" and I also recognize, when it's time to turn the ship over to the young guns. I will tell you a quick story -- a number of months ago, on a Saturday night, Frank Kleines and I were at a local pub downing a few beers. It was nine o'clock and when I looked up three "younger" guys walked in, sat down and ordered a beer and a shot each-- Their hair was wet, like they just got out of the shower and they were dressed to the nines. I said to Frank -- a few years ago that was us -- now I'm getting ready to go home and go to bed and they are just starting out --
In a few years, I'll be dead and they will be sitting in these same stools getting ready to go home, when three young guys will walk in and order beers and a shot. -- I'm jealous-- My acid reflux just get's in my way--- But I will promise you this-- I will hang "for awhile" with you guys, then I'll go to bed with a big smile. Ah, the cycle of life, I love it.
Mike

Mike

[MidOHasp]

Mike,

I can't tell if your story is heartwarming of if it's just MY acid reflux kicking my butt.

On my way home from work tonight, (yeah, at 9), I grabbed a "pizza bugger" from a place called Mulligan's.

Imagine a patty of spicy italian sausage wedged between two thick slices of cheese pizza.

You can't "O.D." on Prevacid, can you? I'm going to try...

[BMK]

Now watch out for those Georgia boys...

They nailed me at the "Run N Gun" with their 'moonshine'..

Single malt..

Bernie

[BLACKJACK]

GEEEZZZZ, MIKE,

STOP BEING SO DEPRESSING - - - - -

I'M PROBABLY OLDER THAN YOU. (OR ANYBODY ELSE FOR THAT MATTER). I JUST FINISHED A JOB (TECH SWEEP) THAT KEPT ME UP UNTIL AFTER 4:00 AM SEVERAL DAYS IN A ROW - - DID MY "OFFICE CHORES" DURING THE DAY AND STARTED THE TECH SWEEP AGAIN AT 7:00 PM. MY TECH TEAM CONSISTS OF PEOPLE FROM 45 YEARS OLD (MY R.F. ENGINEER) TO A BRAND NEW (FORMER STUDENT OF MINE) WHO IS 29 YEARS OLD. I AM ALMOST NEVER THE FIRST ONE TO "SHUT DOWN" THE SWEEP DUE TO FATIGUE. NOW - THE 29 YEAR OLD GIRL IS ABOUT THE ONLY ONE THAT REALLY KEEPS UP WITH ME. SHE'S ABOUT 97 POUNDS OF DYNAMITE - - I COULDN'T OUT RUN HER IF I WAS THIRTY.

I'M A LITTLE SLOWER THAN I WAS 20 YEARS AGO. I'M NOT RUNNING FIVE MILES EVERY MORNING AS I DID THREE YEARS AGO BECAUSE THE KNEES DON'T LIKE IT VERY MUCH.

I'M PROBABLY HAVING MORE FUN NOW THAN I EVER HAVE. SHOOT - - I'VE EVEN BEEN IN TWO FIST FIGHTS IN THE PAST THREE MONTHS (NOT AT ALL SOMETHING THAT I'M PROUD OF) AND CAME OUT ON TOP BOTH TIMES. THE BROKEN HAND STILL HURTS THOUGH. (KIDS WILL NEVER LEARN).

I LOVE LIFE AND I LIVE THE HELL OUT OF IT. IF SOMEONE IS GOING TO CONVINCE ME THAT "I CAN'T DO IT ANYMORE" THEY'RE CERTAINLY GOING TO HAVE TO BRING THEIR LUNCH.

AS A MATTER OF FACT I JUST GOT ENGAGED A FEW WEEKS AGO - - WEDDING IN MARCH O5.

AS LONG AS YOU WAKE UP EVERY MORNING "ON THE GREEN SIDE OF THE SOD" - - IT CAN BE A MARVELOUS AND MAGICAL DAY.

NOW - - - I'M SURE THAT YOU REALIZE THAT ALL OF THIS IS A COMMERCIAL FOR RAKI. SEVERAL GOOD BELTS A DAY AND THE WHOLE WORLD BECOMES A PLAY GROUND.

Y'ALL HAVE A REALLY GREAT DAY.

BLACKJACK

[BMK]

Black Jack



Its 0410 here. Middle of the night. I've been going for nearly 21 hours with a major clean and re fit here.

The 18 year old guy is asleep under the counter..

Damn I'll sleep for 12 hours after this though..

...maybe some malt will help me sleep.

Bernie

[BLACKJACK]

BERNIE - -

G'BLESS YA, LAD.

YOUR A TRUE MAN.

BLACKJACK

[BMK]

Yeah I know



I'm about to go home. May wake up the wife and let her know what she has been missing..

Not bloody likely..

Have a good day

Cheers

Bernie

[Double Venom]

A preamble, if you will is the only way that I can think of to give some kind of order to what is to follow.

This is an extremely long post, as there are 13, (now 19, now 22!) computer pages, resulting in over 130 typed pages to respond to. I will try my best to answer all questions, and comments.

I know I lack the writing flare that many of you possess and I apologize in advance for that. My entire intent is to answer in as precise and direct way that I know how. I will be direct, very direct in some instances. In no way are any of my comments going to be given with ‘an attitude’!

When Diane and I were writing back and forth between APO 90638 and ZIP code 49505, Viet Nam and Michigan, Diane being an English major, thought it would be funny to return one of my letters corrected in red pencil! Needless to say that ended my correspondence for a while. I think it was about that time that I took delivery of the now famous Chocolate Chip Cookies.

I will be making references to different posts. When I do it will be direct. I will use the posters screen name and since I am unable to actually pull the comment and paste it, I will take the liberty of paraphrasing. To save some time and space I will summarize his post, question, or comment, then list the actual computer page and paragraph it can be found at so that anyone can make sure I am not misquoting.

How to start?
What is the “DVSF”? If you haven’t been here since the inception of the “Fling”, then please read page 4 of this thread, posted by Mike Bratz from the DVSF web site. This was written a long time ago, but it is the roots of our event.

It is nothing more than a picnic to bring together Cobra lovers from all over the world. To meet, use and show off their Cobras. In the interim, donated moneys were offered to help off set our costs. The Cobra Family voted on donating what was left over to help out Cystic Fibrosis patients. It is not and did not start out as a fundraiser. It has, in some peoples eyes seemed to have grown to that. It is however an event to promote ALL Cobras without inference to any one manufacturer. It is a family event where the wife’s, and kids are not only welcome, but are expected. It is a place to embellish on who we are. A very special group of people that have at least one thing in common, great hearts and a love for an old outdated classic car. The ‘DVSF Spring Fling’, or just ‘Fling,’ if you will, has grown past anyone’s possible projections. It has not grown the way I expected it to, nor has it grown the way that some other people have demanded.

Just keep in mind; in the beginning this was to be a one-time event, period.
Some things you don’t know, or have forgotten. DVSF 1, when it became quite clear that my wife and I simply could not afford to meet the needs of fifty or more people and their Cobras for a half day, two Cobra manufacturers, Superformance and Classic Roadsters, (now Classic Roadsters II), called us and offered to help pay for this, this one time huge picnic. When the checks came in, it was obvious that there was more money than we certainly needed to put on this picnic. That is when the Cobra family decided to donate what ever was left to CF. From there it became, as long as, ‘we’re donating’ why not try and raise more funds?

The point is, when DVSF 1 was on the boards we asked the so-called sponsors not to set up displays, or to bring in their sales force. We did not want this to become a Carlisle type event. It was a generic event for all Cobras. The beautiful part of it was, not one of the sponsors, and there ended up being quite a few, complained about donating money and not being allowed to show their wares.

We all know how competitive the Cobra market is, and to have so many manufacturers’ come to one place and not set up a single display is truly incredible.

PRESENT DATE:

As of DVSF IV, we have gone full circle. The manufacturers’ were asked to come, but to come in absolutely free. They would only donate to CF what they wanted to, if anything. (Read this again people, they were NOT asked for funds, they weren’t even given a suggestion as to what they could/should donate. Remember this, as it will be mentioned later on.

First you need to know that over the last two years, maybe more, that a small ‘few’ of the ‘central Ohio’ people have been slowly but steadily attempting to undermine the entire event and take it over. False statements, innuendos, rumors, and in some cases out right lies have been told. I’ve known that this was taking place almost from the beginning. Seems everyone wanted a piece of the Fling. (I don’t know what they thought they would be getting!) For those that want to know how I know, let it suffice that I have been approached by the local Cystic Fibrosis office, Chief Cramer, London’s Police Chief, London’s Safety Director, Mr. Hume, a few of our County Commissioners, and even by some of our sponsors, and many of our own. Everyone wanting to know if it was true or not, the Fling would no longer be as they knew it, and that it was moving? At first, I hardly gave it a thought, then each year it kept surfacing. Each year I would pay a little closer attention, then… Fling IV came along and what a total *****. Not *****es with the Fling mind you, but the organization itself was being torn apart from within.

And that brings us to where we are now.

Page 1 of the thread-
JP: “I think there are some out there who have been put off or offended that the “DVSF IV” was such a big secret until the day they showed up.”

(Be forewarned, I apologize in advance, as I AM taking some of JP’s comments personally and my answers may indicate a willingness show of an “attitude”.)

DV: JP, you know personally what happened! You know in fact one of the biggest events for individual Cobras ever, was cancelled within days of the event! However this too was released prior to the event.

Everyone DID know what the schedule prior to showing up! Please explain any event that was held that was not broadcast earlier.

JP: It’s a big waste of (IMO) resources to have a handful of people plan for 300 attendees. (Next paragraph) We talk so much about this being a family event, but for it to continue to grow and be better, it truly has to be a FAMILY venture. Family meaning Cobra family, not just the Combs family.

DV: Hmmm, major attitude boiling up. Not ‘just the Combs’ family’! JP, fella you do not have a clue! (Please re-read page 8 of this thread where I posted about your lack of knowledge about the Fling. (More on that post shortly.) Another point you continuously make is not bigger but in your own words you want to grow… Anything I say at this point would be nothing more than sarcasm, demanding more sarcasm back.


Turk: Front of page #3:

DV: Turk your first comment was kind of a slap in the face to all of us. “So we can raise another $500.00 for CF?” Why is it so hard to remember that there was truly less than 90 days to put Fling IV together? Why is it so hard to remember that none of our sponsors were charged a dime to come this year? (Although some did donate!) Why is it so hard to remember that with less than the mentioned 90 days, that we received so few items to auction at the picnic, it was the shortest auction in all the prior Flings? Although Jenny and Mike from Arizona still donated the most wonderful quilts!

Turk: (later on I the same thread.) The bigger it is, the worse it becomes.

DV: Without an attitude, whom would you suggest to tell all/some of the Cobra family’s not to come? What is the limit? “X” number of small blocks vs. big blocks? (Interject my humor here please.)
Maybe limit it to “X” of Cobras from each brand or maybe “X” number of Cobras from each state? Turk goes on to state, “the worse it becomes…. Would you mind explain that please?

Turk: “We are NOT JERRY LEWIS! We don’t need to travel to London, OH. to donate money to CF.

DV: Damn, I cannot remember a time in the last four years where anyone was told they couldn’t come to the DVSF unless they donated to CF, or anybody else!

Continuing on: “Let me do that, send money to CF with FULL ACOUNTING.”

DV: Oh, now that comment is interesting! Damned interesting. Are you making a statement, a complaint? An accusation? Seems that this may have been the start of the “Accounting” and accountability topics that have been brought up on this thread. All of these related comments/questions about accountability will be addressed as a whole later in this response.

Still Pg.3
Mike Braatz:
Mike has posted the figures from the four Flings; however, once again, CF has their numbers a little wrong. The first Fling brought in roughly $11,000.00 we then made tremendous jumps in our donations, right up until 2004. First off, as I mentioned later, once the final tally was obtained, CF received well over $12,000.00 from the DVSF IV. (Shayna told me this less than a week after DVSF IV. (Shaunna and Shayna are two different people at CF) Another thing that was not mentioned was as an additional $10,000.00 gift to CF by one of our own who shall remain anonymous, but lets just keep it at the $12,000.00 for now.

Less than 90 days people! What the hell do the naysayers want? (Yep, sorry that was an attitude sneaking in.) “WE” never get to the big numbers, (would you listen to me, —big numbers!) until the actual Fling starts and ends! 90 days… break that down a little, lets not even take into the unknown equation of how much is donated in the last two months vs. the first ten months of the Fling, lets just say this year it was what it was…$4,000.00 a month. That equates to at least $48,000.00 for the year—AFTER expenses! That “IS” JERRY LEWIS”, with nothing more than this little Cobra family of ours.

I’m sorry if a few of you, and I mean a few relying on the private e-mails I have received, are not happy with the “$8,000/12,000.00” that was given to CF raised this year. What

[Double Venom]

you probably do not know is that we have always kept $2,000 to $2,500 for the following year, but I’m still shocked, amazed and very damned proud that we had that much to give to CF this year. (EIGHTY-SEVEN days if you want to count the day that the Sniper was actually caught!) Eight-Seven days.)

Mikes last comment on this thread:
“It is imperative that we, as a group, have some financial accountability—is that clear—we must have financial responsibility.”

DV: Once again…Hmmmmm. Would someone tell me why we don’t. Have anyone of you ever asked where the money was going and didn’t receive a direct answer?


JAMO- same thread:
“Way to many chef’s in the kitchen, and some a$$es are gonna bump into each other.”

DV: Just had to chuckle over that one.

Page 4:
Turk: “I don’t go to the Fling to contribute to CF, I go to be with friends and contribute while I am there.”

DV: Well said, and I don’t hold the DVSF to contribute to CF! I to, go to be with friends, that we end up donating to CF is strictly the icing in my opinion.

JP: …there was a brand new Kirkham donated free-of-charge…the proceeds donated to CF have gone down as we’ve gotten bigger.

DV: First off, although the Kirkhams did donate the car ‘free-of-charge’ to us, we still paid thousands and thousands of dollars to complete the car, not to mention a few hundred hours OF ‘DONATED’ work that was needed to complete the car.

IF ANYONE takes this as a complaint from me, then I suggest you see me first before posting anything negative. The Kirkham Cobra was and still is the greatest gift the Fling has ever received!

Second, JP, how the hell do you figure the donation has gone down, as we’ve gotten bigger?

Also, please explain bigger? More Cobras? Yes. More Cobra families? Yes. More days to the Fling? NO. Taken over more of London? NO. More events? NO. Different maybe, but certainly not more. More Vendors? Yes, because either “YOU” or the Vendors themselves asked to come.

So somebody, anybody explain to me what you’re calling “bigger”. Then explain to me why it is such a bad thing. Turk mentioned the hotels can’t handle us. Turk, since the inception of the first Fling, there have been at least three more hotels built within a mile of our original hotels. This doesn’t even account for the half dozen or so eight miles north of us. I think Hotels are not a problem. But, maybe that’s just me being stubborn. (?)

JP: And I quote, “As WE” devote more and more time and energy to make the fling “bigger and badder” than ever before, we lose sight of what it is/was all about.”

Then he continues,

“Now that the Fling has truly become a business (registering via secure internet transaction site, etc…), more and more people are putting on their accounting hats and saying, “Well, if this is a business, and we are trying to raise boatloads of cash for CF, where is all that cash going?”

DV: This is just about where I posted; it would have been nice had you been “here” from the inception of the Fling. This is where you accused me of getting an attitude when I asked if the DVSF IV wasn’t your first Fling that you actually participated in as one of our family.

My point is, you obviously have NO clue why we, all the volunteers, have taken a vast amount of time, and resources needed to not only write the web site up so it can be a secure site, but what it takes to obtain one.

Had you been here from the beginning you will find that I, the “Combs’ family” as you like to call it, refused to accept any money for the Fling. None, none, none! If you can and maybe Ron can help out, go back four years and find out how many times people volunteered to send us money just so “our” “Picnic” could continue you might get a different outlook on what you have posted. I absolutely refused, stating many, many times that you DO NOT charge people anything to come to your picnic! Once DVSF II (?) came along it was so obvious that there was no way “The Combs Family” could afford to put on this event, “WE” not me, but “US” us demanded that they pay something so we could continue on with the Flings. “WE”, the entire Cobra family, not us, decided on the amount. You were outvoted in 1990 by the ‘WE’, not the ‘ONE”.

That is when the $100.00 fee was chosen, again by “you” not us! That $100.00 now covered the expense of the BBQ, renting of the Lodge, (Never made it to the Lodge did you?), hell that covered everything but any personal expenses and STILL DOES.

At the same time the raffles started to take off. “You”, not us, not only asked but damned near demanded that we join the 20th century and take credit cards on the website. I thought, why not? Sure would save me a ton of time and work. The credit card slips would make “accounting” so much easier. Then with untold contacts and work, we finally were able to get a huge break from the credit card companies and “ Merchants Services” to obtain the necessary “what ever” to use credit cards on line.

JP: to finish his statement, “…where is all that cash going?”

DV: Helluva implication JP. Second time I think that has been referred to. Why not just ASK? Why not call me? I’d be glad to answer that. Foremost, ANYONE can ask! No one ever has, EXCEPT CF, but that doesn’t mean you can’t! I intend to make a full post sometime in the very near future on this very thing. There are reasons that will become very apparent later on why I have decided to hold off a little. (Now this is a great comment that I have made which I’m sure a few of you will be more than willing to speculate on. Be careful, you might be embarrassed when it is said and done!)

Lets see, probably the biggest cost is, ‘employee’ expense. It is OK since this is a ‘business’ to have employees and pay them isn’t it?

Lets start off at the bottom and work up.

Rick Dorman, hell Rick worked through some really tough times getting the “Poker Run” that “YOU” wanted. He made the maps, drove all the routes, numerous times I might add. He also contacted everyone of the business’ involved. He then held the finale’ Friday night to determine the winner.

Rick’s’ take after it was all said and done…. $.ZERO (Thanks again Rick)

John Bower. John is the guy that has been working on the web site ever since Tom H. disappeared last year, (I’ll find out more and report on this nightmare later.) really leaving us hanging. John took at least three weeks of vacation time from his job to build the web site. In fact he used up every vacation day he had earned and is still trying to straighten out that mess as I’m typing this. I hesitate to guess as John does not know how to work less than ten-hour days minimum, but lets assume he has a minimum of 400 hours in so far.

John’s take: $.ZERO
(John, a guy couldn’t ask for a better Son-n-Law!)

Wendy (Combs) Bower, Just a hundred or so hours, meeting with London, working with the kids, working on the parades, helping John, and giving up her vacation to Europe this year. (Remember the above scenario with her husband?) Not a complaint from either one of them either, they just kept asking…what else?

Wendy’s take: $.ZERO

Mrs. DV- Diane. Let is suffice that just mentioning her name should be enough. Without her, there would be NO Flings!

Mrs. DV’s take: $.ZERO

Chris, excessive 1 as most of you knows him. I couldn’t give Chris money! I honestly cannot count the hours/days that Chris put in at the shop, not only helping with the Fling, but also actually working on the DV Cobra and some of my “shop” cars that I had to work on for the real business, so I could work on the Fling.

Chris’ take: $.ZERO

Can’t forget the “real” employees of my old shop. By now, as most of you know, Jay Kowalik (NoLimits) took over. Those guys were awesome, not only this year but also every year of the Fling. They helped put Jenny’s car together, they helped answering the hundreds of phone calls, they too worked on the DV Cobra, and they “worked the Fling-all three days on their own time!” (At least they never charged me; they might had dinged Jay for some of it though-smiley face here!)

Classics by Elite, llc.’s take: $.ZERO

I am so sorry, because I am forgetting so many people here, but trust me “their” take was: $.ZERO

I guess that leaves DV Jr. – Randy:
As I’ve previously stated, Randy actually shut his business down at least five weeks. FIVE WEEKS! I’d like to see any of you take five weeks off of work, especially if you are a “service” type business and NOT take home a single paycheck! Then of course for that five weeks alone, which certainly doesn’t count the hundreds of hours not working with/for the raffle, he spent that time, transporting the raffle car from Georgia, to Carlisle to Ohio and many points in between. Did I mention Kentucky and Tennessee? Not bad for all the time we had.
However just to keep the record straight, he was paid “FROM THE RAFFLE FUNDS ONLY”, for one meal a day, hotel rooms, entry fees to the events, (not of them let us in free), and fuel costs. He used my truck and Classics by Elite, llc’s trailer at no cost to anyone.

Randy’s take: If you want to take in a “broken home”, lost business, etc., that kid made a fortune: $.ZERO

[Double Venom]

Ahh, last but certainly not least! At least in my eyes…ME.
What did I “take” from Fling IV? Hell, what did I take from all the Flings? I honestly don’t know how to answer that. Any Vet will tell you, you will never make a true friend like you make in the service of your country. A friend that you will never forget, a friend that will do ‘anything’ at ‘anytime’ just for you, no matter what it is! I made ‘those’ friends while being in the service. But, now I know hundreds more of those friends, thanks in part to all the Flings. The support, the phone calls, the e-mails, guys AND gals that come up to me and give me a handshake or a hug, (I like the hugs better-but not from you ‘guys!”) The smile on Jenny’s face, the knowledge and that she has/had shown some very serious improvement since the original Fling. I’ve seen Cobra families come from thousands of miles to be together for nothing more than to greet, drive, drink ‘a little’, show off and then raise some hellacious amounts of money for a terrible disease.

DV’s take: Hell, you can’t put a price tag on that!
To answer the question that is obviously being asked? $.ZERO

JP, responding to you once again: Same thread, just down the page a little.

“I can’t imagine 300 of them showing up at the same place one weekend and not raising more than 8 grand.” Then you state, “Does it sound cold-hearted for me to say that the Fling was not about Jenny in the beginning?”

DV: Fella, with your statements, and wrong interpretations, I’m damned if I do, Damned if I don’t. Once again I wish you had been around since the inception of the DVSF. Last year it was all about making the Fling smaller, getting back to our roots. Now that “we” did and it is, you complain that we only took in $8,000.00? Once again to set the record straight, ‘WE’ took in a helluvalot more than that. The $8,000.00 that you have misquoted is what ‘WE’ GAVE/DONATED to CF, NOT what we took in.

It’s not for CF it’s for “US”, the donation should be secondary. (Once more, please read post 1, the correct amount is stated.) I believe Turk indicated that the infamous “Gasholes’ spend over $20,000.00 collectively, to attend the Fling. Come to think about it, maybe that’s why we ‘only’ made $12,000.00 plus this year…they didn’t make it!
My point is, and this is for everyone…SHOULD WE TAKE THE DVSF, TURN IT INTO A BUSINESS AND SOLEY RUN THE BUSINESS FOR CF OR ANY OTHER CHARITY OF OUR ‘FAMILY’S’ CHOICE? Or…. should we keep it as “our” picnic and whatever IF any extra monies left over should be donated to what ever the ‘Family’ chooses?

JP: “It sickens me to think that in the hubbub of commercializing the fling, we have lost complete track of what is all about in the beginning – friends.”

DV: It truly sickens me of your interpretation of the DVSF! It sickens me to see your misconception of the DVSF. Would you OR anybody please tell me what is commercialized about the Fling? You make it sound like we’re selling shares for the picnic! Do you see any of the sponsors telling us how to do things? How about the few vendors that we have? I guess you and I certainly use a different dictionary to define commercialization!

JP: (out of text but I’m cold and tired) “Imagine the same 300 people come this year with no agenda, no name tags, no maps etc., etc.” A few locals plan some fine things if people are so inclined.

DV: This is good, really good. JP, do you know the original DVSF was to be four hours only on a Sunday afternoon? Of course you don’t, you weren’t around then. Do you know that the first Fling was to be in the central U.S. in a ‘Wal-Mart’ parking lot? Of course you don’t. Did you know that Dr. ‘D’ (Semko) is ‘the’ one that suggested that we hold it at my small shop? Nope, don’t reckon you knew that either. Did you know because of the “family” that the first Fling was instantly turned into a full day event on Sunday and then to both Saturday and Sunday, before I could even respond to the first,’ all day’ Sunday post? Of course not…. Do you know that it was made a three-day event for DVSF II, before DVSF I was even over with? MY decision? Not on your bibby!

Then to finish on your last comment, dropping everything that the “FAMILY” has already asked for, you state… QUOTE:“A few “LOCALS” plan some things if people are so inclined.” UN QUOTE.
Tell me JP, just who are the “few” locals? Are you one of the “few “ locals? Me thinks, YOU THINK YOU ARE. Check Hotfingers post on page 16. Obviously I am NOT the only one that thinks so too!

How about the agenda, the maps, the nametags? Obviously you think those were my ideas too. Well, you’re again, and again and again WRONG! All of this came from the Cobra family! Why don’t you get back up on the pedestal and tell all of them that they were wrong and that you have the right idea? I don’t care; I WILL do what ever “they” decide to do. Always have always will.

As you suggested, I guess I chewed on it for a while and this is the beginning of the results. By the way I wouldn’t dare “PM” you as you suggested, it needs to be done here. (OK, sarcastic and an attitude. Allow me to sincerely apologize now, but I’m not going to change what I have said.)

Moving on, we’re up to page 5!

Turk: Picnic? Autocross? Poker Run?

DV: Turk, we have had a picnic every year from the start, albeit it took place inside at the lodge. If we ever go back to the lodge I’ll personally import the ants!

Autocross? DVSF III my friend. Brought to you by Jamo and Rick, among others of course. (Note-I make no secret of holding back on the autocross simply because I refused to let the DVSF turn into a ‘Run-n-Gun’. As stated, the above and many others showed me the errors of my ways.

DVSF IV autocross-well, it would have been one helluva an autocross if Nationwide hadn’t stepped in and squashed it in the last 10 days or so of the event.

Poker Run…blame that on Rick too! I listened to him again!

Partial quote “The input (WHICH WILL BE IGNORED ANYWAY) is about improving the Fling and making it inclusive.”

DV: I’m sorry Turk, I just can’t swallow that and I think it is an unearned attack. What “input” have I ignored or not answered to over the last four years? I really want to know. I know you don’t like the way I post, the alleged secretiveness, if you will about the events. I will correct that to be sure. Simple really, I WILL post the upcoming events that are chosen by the “family”, ONCE THEY ARE LOCKED IN. I will no longer post a ‘ wait until tomorrow type thread.

Moving on.
Page 7:
Never mind, re-read it if you want, but I could go on for pages covering JP’s statements to this point.

Page 8:
This is the page where I asked JP if I was wrong about him coming to DVSF IV as an official member with his Dad, and indicated that he really should have been here from the beginning.

‘clayhouse’ makes a statement referring to ‘keeping it simple and uncomplicated.’ Then goes on: ‘If you go all the way back to your firsts posts, and the many posts you wrote before IV, they were much about how complicated everything was, and how much work it takes, how much time.’

Clay, when I have brought this up, it was only given as a reason for, in some people’s eyes, not working or typing fast enough. IF ANYONE thinks I was complaining/whining, then you/they are wrong. I do this because I love the event and what it really does stand for. I have yet to regret a single moment. Of course that hasn’t kept me from beating my head against a wall more than once. I don’t even have a single regret about this thread! I am however amazed at the attitude it has taken in spots, let alone the innuendos that some people have expressed.

JAMO: Growing pains? I have been putting up with the growing pains since BLACKJACK spent three (?) days with me after the first Fling was over. He and I WENT OVER EVERY EVENT, every step, and came out with many new ideas for any future Flings. I still use that list he made to this day. I know the Fling has to have its growing pains, or ‘this hobby and this event will die of stagnation.’

DV: I sincerely hope that it doesn’t die from stagnation, or any other causes.

PAGE 9:
JP, I love your first comment: “In keeping the spirit of this being a public discussions, let’s save the private call bull.”

So everyone knows, I told JP I would be glad to discuss anything he has asked about, either publicly or by phone. THIS was offered ”PUBLICALY” as JP had mentioned in an earlier post that if I wanted to discuss anything about the Fling ‘behind the scenes’ that I was welcome to call him instead. Tit for Tat.

But, as a response to my, ‘number of Flings you have attended’… you go on… ‘Look…to me, this is along the same lines as post count. I get so sick of hearing people get yelled at for opening up their mouth with 20 posts. If someone has something to say, they are allowed. Maybe they’ve lurked for a year before posting. You NEVER KNOW, ED. You never know what someone’s background is.

DV—and your point?

JP: “See, one lesson I’ve learned in life is that if you say to someone, “Hey, I need to talk to you about something,” and they respond with, “I didn’t do it! Why are you blaming me for it!?” then by gosh they did it.

JP, you’ve made my point again. If you really did know me, if you had any idea what I am about and how I work, first of all you would never have taken my comment about wishing you had been here from the very first day the way you have. It WAS NOT a slam or dig against you in anyway. (I did see where Pat made a post regarding this and he too obviously thought that it was some sort of jab.) That being the case, it was not. Only wishing you had been here from the beginning.

Continuing on… “You NEVER KNOW, ED. You never know what someone’s background is.”

[Double Venom]

Probably the most important part of this thread, at least to me is when you post,

“I get the impression that you are going to dodge the point at hand, here. For one thing, you continue to fail to address one particular question that continues to arise. I’m not going to bring it up again. Feel free to pick it up on your own, after all, it is YOUR party. Surely you know what I’m getting at, Ed.

JP, what is the point? What are you getting at? Really, I’m as serious as a heart attack. WHAT IS THE POINT AT HAND? WHAT IS THE ‘ONE PARTICULAR QUESTION’? WHAT ARE YOU GETTING AT? Since you climbed all over Hotfingers for NOT knowing what your agenda is, please tell me --TELL US what your agenda is!

Spit it out. Just ask! Be prepared though, I will answer whatever question(s) you want answers to. You may not like the answer(S), but rest assured, if I know the question, you will get an answer.

PAGE 10:

Mike Braatz: ”Ed, I think you need to be more vigilant in financial accountability.”

Mike, take this as you know me, I am not being evasive, nor am I taking an attitude of any kind but who says I am not? I’d really like to know that one. (See my very first page of this entry.) Do you think we don’t have a record of every dime spent? Can you possibly think that we, meaning the people that run the Fling, don’t watch and bicker over absolutely every dollar OR dime that is spent? Let me give you a few examples just from last year; CF wanted us to use the same company that they use to supply their tents—Randy called that company and was appalled at the $1,500.00 cost they quoted us for our tent. Randy then called absolutely everyone in the Columbus, London, AND surrounding areas to get quotes. He finally settled on “Madison Tent and Awning Co.” where their price was almost $1,000.00 less. Want another one? How about chairs and tables? Again CF’s contact was reached. Again Randy thought he could do better and DID, saving hundreds of dollars over what the local CF chapter would have paid. Once again? How about the outdoor portable lighting, or the Caterers, or the port-a-potty’s? Again and again and again, we, meaning “we”, question every cent that we spend! Does anyone think that we go all the way to Toledo, Oh. for the caterers because their food is better? Not hardly! Although, it is pretty darn good in my opinion. We research every year for a new caterer, only to “beat the price” from Harlan’s. So far, Harlan’s not only has had great food, great service—driving more than two hours to get here, they also have beat any quotes that we have had year after year.

Same page, toward the end:
Jay N… after posting a few direct comments,
clayfoushee posts: “Jay, you’re a good guy, but I think there’s a lot you’re not aware of.”

Clay, would you clarify all of that for me/us. What do you think that Jay is not aware of? I for one would surely like to know.

Then Clay posts, “JP, I’m impressed with your willingness to be on the point of the spear. Keep it going buddy. Your friends have you back”.

DV…Wow, quite a comment Clay. Let “your” friends be made public so that I may answer all their questions.

PAGE 12:
Dave Semko: in part…I say quit bickering about the money. We have no right to know the details. It is a business, its Ed’s business, and doesn’t owe us any explanations.

Didn’t post to Dave’s statement sooner, but a simple answer to this is, a polite ‘you’ do have a right to know ALL the details about the Fling. If you want to know…just ask, plain and direct. Simple really.

What I’m missing is the common comments from Mansfield, Oh to Richmond, In. that keeps popping up. Once again it IS a BUSINESS, it’s Ed’s business.

I’m absolutely at a loss over the ‘business’ comments. I surely hope that one of you tell me when it became a business, especially ‘MY’ business.

PAGE 15:
Mike Braatz’s post about funds and the raffle car. I have already spoken to this and hopefully it was made plain, and simple. If not, then by all means let me know what I missed.

Pat Buckley: “I must have missed something…..I fail to see what is so “amazing” about that comment and to that end, I think it is time to start speaking plain English.”

Pat, what I found “amazing” was that Turk posted earlier in this thread, very basically, since I can’t find the quote right now, that regardless how many times I ask our group for suggestions/opinions, they are ignored anyway, or that I simply don’t listen to them. THAT is what I found amazing. Simply that Turk would post such a comment. Then, in addition, toward the bottom of page 15… “Will you allow or welcome input and direction from folks who have indicated a desire to have a hand in organizing this thing?”

Although every fiber in my soul wants to scream out an answer to this absolutely ludicrous statement, I will only say…of course, I will AND I always do.

PAGE 16:
Just to answer Toms /OhBuoy comments,
Tom, I have found out over the years, and not just the Flings, that ‘kits’ do not do nearly as well in a raffle as a turnkey-minus’, or a completed car. I certainly agree about building it ‘your way’ too! But, again, time was of the essence. I think it was Mike that posted about Shell Valley and he is absolutely right. Dana and Rich Anderson have offered us a complete “kit” for at least three years. It is certainly NOT because I have turned them down. First FFR came in with the Cp, then just as I was about to take them up on their wonderful offer, David Kirkham posted that they were giving us a very special 289 FIA Kirkham Cobra. Then we of course come to present day, and the rest is recent history. Not enough time, etc., etc. As far as the “Badlands”, (CRII) funny you should bring that up!
To finalize; since we try and sell the raffle tickets from one end of the country to the other, many people that buy the tickets are NOT builders in any way, they just want something shiny and cool to drive away in. If we are to ever hold a raffle again, and we have more than one choice, rest assured I will “ask permission” from the entire “Family” on which one we choose!


Page 19-jumping ahead a little:

Pat Buckley: DV FOR PRESIDENT!!!

If it’s even just a wee bit of sarcasm, I still find it hilarious, especially today –October 28,04. I CAN MAKE UP MY MIND that is if all of you tell me what it’s supposed to be. (Smiley face please-WORD wont allow me to do that! I don’t think I would be any worse of a candidate than what is on the board right now!

MIKE: just a comment about your event breakdown and costs associated with each event. That would be a LOGISTICAL NIGHTMARE! I think it takes the “KISS” approach and decapitates the idea!

Page 20: Dave Semko…

I was going to post something regarding your remarks, decided it just ‘aint worth it’. If you want to take it up further, or expound on it deeper, you know where I am.

SUMMATION:
I know…finally.

[Double Venom]

Will there actually be a DVSF V after all this? I hope so, but we’ll see. If we do, and Turk, the preliminary break down is for you: (Add another smiley face here!)

From this point on I OR DV Jr., (Randy) will keep everyone informed and up to date on what is being laid out for DVSF V.
We will post times and days of any meetings that we will be holding. This will include the City Fathers of London, the meetings with the State of Ohio, right down to the meetings we hold with our vendors. Anyone that would want to attend, please do so! I will not respond to any post, in any way, shape or form about… ‘this is what we’re trying to do’ type thread.

JP writes...
“KISS” How much simpler can it be? Just tell people when and where?

Right! Total and complete chaos. A fun event for everyone Friday morning, free time Friday night. London Saturday morning, our Picnic Saturday night, and hopefully a great and fun event on Sunday. To me, THAT IS KISS!

I even got slammed because I asked the “FAMILY” if they wanted to take over the entire downtown of London this year? I asked if “we” should allow other groups in, etc. I get remarks like, “why are you asking the same questions each year? “WE” already answered that!

To me each year is different. We have so many new members coming each year that the itinerary could change. Had or IF we were to take over the entire down town, it WAS for the benefit of our sponsors. Sure as hell not me! They would have been allowed to park south of us, taking up both sides of the street, as far south as they needed to go. You guys know how much work it takes to bring in those big rigs and set up. You certainly could see how much room they need. That IS my idea of getting “BIGGER”. NOT the amount of Cobras and cobra people that are coming. I may be misinterpreting your complaints and comments about “BIGGER”, but this is the way I see it until someone tells me different.

A BIG QUESTION: Do we change charities?

Do “WE” even try to raise money for whomever we pick, or do “we” simply take what is ever left over and donate it to a ‘voted’ organization?

I have never brought my own personal thoughts to this, but quite a few guys have already brought up the London, Police and Fire Departments. Let me say, that London is obviously a small town, with small revenues. Anything that was purchased for them, I know would be tremendously appreciated and I might add, well deserved.

Another idea that I think is worth looking into is “CLUB COBRA”.
I have no idea what BRENT is sacrificing in order to let us use his site for the “Double Venom Spring Fling thread”, maybe a good chunk of any monies that we raise should go to him??????

This entire “horahh” by no means covers all of your questions that you might have about running the Fling.

I’m up to 17 typed pages now and over a week, (now two) in responding. I know there are people with more questions/comments. All I ask, for heavens sake AND the Flings sake is to ask them. Ask them direct and precise. I will make every attempt to answer them in the same manner. DO NOT MAKE ASSUMPTIONS, DO NOT BELIEVE WHAT YOU “HEAR” UNLESS YOU CONRIRM IT! You CAN confirm “IT” right here!

Nope, you can’t please everyone, but damn it, I do try.

Ed “DV” Combs…. To be continued
PS..I hope I have pasted all of this "WORD" document correctly. If not I will go back and try to straighten it out.

Things that will need and get further discussion on is:
CF..and the complete story behind it
Charity-if any
Raffle-if any
Any other parts of the Fling that you want more or more precise answers to

[larryar]

ED, the mere fact that you would even consider having Fling V, demonstrates what kind of man you are! Most of us would say to hell with it after all the abuse you've taken. I can only say THANKS for all your hard work. It is a minority that is complaining. I can tell you that JP got shredded on the Capital Area Cobra Club site. We are 100% behind you.
Thanks again for the greatest Cobra event in the world.
Larry Russo

[Turk]

Ed,
That IS BS and you know it!

If you are going to single me out and respond to what I said, do it right. Don't respond to what you THINK I said.

Vendors didn't have to pay? Gee, I hope ERA doesn't think I kept the check I had them make out to you.

Call me and I'll tell you what else I think is BS. Until then I have no interest becoming a whipping boy a few diehards.

[CobraDan]

Ed,
All I wanted to know was the dates of DVSF FIVE

Dan & Jean Wulff

[Double Venom]

Turk,
Please re-read that portion of the post. I very specifically stated for DVSF IV--Four--4. This year only, NO COBRA VENDOR WAS ASKED NOR CHARGED a fee what so ever to attend.

I knew this was going to happen, someone was going to read or interpret my posts wrong. But, as I said, if you DO find anything wrong, then do as Turk did. Post it here, and post it plain. If I've made a mistake or ruffeled feathers that should not have been ruffeled, I will apologize and/or fix it--here.

Dan...June 24th/26th

Ed "DV" Combs

[Dan Semko]

ED,
Once again you have confused "Dave" with "Dan".
I'm standing at arms length from this issue and prefer not to engage in any discourse.

This is my FIRST and ONLY post on this thread.

Thank You.

[Double Venom]

Damn,
I did it again. Sorry fella.

[Hotfingrs]

Ed,

As you said, you can't please everybody, and I'm sure there are those that will never be pleased, you did address the main questions with your answers. Of all the people reading this forum, I'd be willing to bet very few really have any concept of what it takes to put on an event of this size. You and your volunteers have done a great job of putting this event on. All I can say is...keep doing what you've been doing and KISS, and the rest will take care of itself.

[DaveSemko]

Ed,

Wanna clear up all the questions - just post a balance sheet that shows the income and expenses in detail.

What most of fear is that the event has become out of control, and that the money is not being managed well. If you are doing as you say, and watching every dime, then it should be easy to document. Do it here and clear up any misconceptions. If you need help putting into proper form I'm sure you'll find many helpful folks here on the forum.

I was there for all the events, and as you know, had input to the first event. During the very first event it was a plain and simple request by me (and others) that a careful accounting be kept. In fact I started to keep a balance sheet, and you said you 'had it covered'. We asked you MANY times to keep us posted on how the accounting was coming together. Throughout the ENTIRE period leading up to the first event - - AND for all the time after you have been 'slippery' about showing anyone ANY true, plain, simple dollars and cents. Why?

During later events (DVSF II etc.) we had discussions both personally, through email and on the phone about the potential that I (and others from the first event) might become involved again. I know I said many times that the ONLY way we would lend a hand is if there was complete accounting. AGAIN you balked - and started taking the attitude that if anyone asked for accoutability that they must be accusing you of doing something wrong. You know we had plain and open exchange on this topic. If you recall I specifically said that as the event grows, and more people become involved, and more money flows... there will be an even stronger need to have complete accountability. This thread proves my point.

There is no evidence that anyone has done anything wrong or illegal; however, at least a few of us feel that the fact that you are always 'slippery' and doing your best to 'spin' this thread from the real question to a personal attack - you must have something you don't want us to know - or you don't have the data (read as - the money was not well managed). Without real accountability it starts to smell like a scam. I think in this case the smell has just gotten too strong for many of us to bear. Wanna clear the air, post the data.

In closing, the reason people are so involved on this thread is because they care and want to see the event continue.