ERA #776 Initial Startup Questions

[CJ428CJ]

2.) Drain coolant (about 1 gallon) until only 1" is remaining in expansion tank when car is level.

I wouldn't drain any water out of the system. You can't put too much water in. If you add too much water, it will just purge itself out of the radiator cap. For what it's worth, with my ERA and expansion tank, the water level is about 1" from the top (not the bottom) of the expansion tank.

[tgitchel]

Originally Posted by CJ428CJ

I wouldn't drain any water out of the system. You can't put too much water in. If you add too much water, it will just purge itself out of the radiator cap. For what it's worth, with my ERA and expansion tank, the water level is about 1" from the top (not the bottom) of the expansion tank.

Yeah, it already purged out about a gallon or so when I shut it down, so I guess it's at the perfect level right now.

[DAVID GAGNARD]

Originally Posted by tgitchel

Yeah, it already purged out about a gallon or so when I shut it down, so I guess it's at the perfect level right now.

if your radiator is puking water when hot and you shut it down, that's a sign of an air pocket somewhere in your system........I'm not that familiar with the
expansion tanks,you could fill the radiator and not worry about the expansion tank, leave the radiator cap off and try another start up...it'll do a couple of things, one is to let you see if you have any water circulating in the radiator once your engine reaches temp and the thermostat should be open, other thing is it'll let excees air out quickly....

I'd also try to refill the radiator first on an incline, it'll help purge air....

the last engine I ran on my run-in stand ran up to about 195, so I shut it down to check things and had the radiator cap off, it puked water, refilled the radiator and after things cooled down, cranked it up again and all was fine, had an air pocket somewhere in the system.......

David

[tgitchel]

Okay, I took out the thermostat and tested it in a pot of water on the stove. Took it all the way up to 210 degrees and it never opened even a little bit. Seems like such a simple device to be DOA like that, but whatever.

Now my question is, is there a particular model of thermostat that people have had good luck with? What temperature rating should I buy? What about "high flow" models?

[vector1]

stewart makes a good hiflow thermostat, they also have a lot of helpful info on their website. i've used the stewart thermos with 3 holes and that is a bit much, engine doesn't get up to temp cruising down the hiway.

i put a fan in front of the radiator whenever i'm working on engine stuff while it is running, helps to cool it off when shut down also.

watch your timing, and i wouldn't richen it too much. if you are late on your timing and putting too much unburned fuel through cylinders into the exhaust your headers will glow a brilliant red. a temp gun might be helpful in this situation.

[Bobcat]

I`m using a Stant # 13478 , which is a 180 degree unit with two 1/8" holes drilled in it . Checked it out before install and it opened exactly when it was supposed to. NAPA here carries them as do several others . This is also the one that Gessford Machine recommends and uses .

Bob

[DAVID GAGNARD]

Originally Posted by Bobcat

I`m using a Stant # 13478 , which is a 180 degree unit with two 1/8" holes drilled in it . Checked it out before install and it opened exactly when it was supposed to. NAPA here carries them as do several others . This is also the one that Gessford Machine recommends and uses .

Bob

+1, I've had very good luck with these and most "standard" part house thermostats....180 degree.....I like to drill 3 small holes in the flange of mine....also, when you test it on the stove, run it thru the cycle 2 or 3 times and watch it open and close, had one that would occasionaly "hang up" about 1/4 way when closing........

Okay, I took out the thermostat and tested it in a pot of water on the stove. Took it all the way up to 210 degrees and it never opened even a little bit. Seems like such a simple device to be DOA like that, but whatever.

anything made by man is subject to defects and failure at any given time, I always,always test things that I can before installing them, learned this a long time ago, the hard way.......

Now that you've found the problem you can fix it, it's when you can't find the problem, that's makes it worse.......

David

[tgitchel]

Okay, I got a new thermostat (Stant) and tested it on the stove. It opened and closed at about 190 (rated at 180), and the old one still refused to open at all. I ran through three cycles and new one seemed to work fine. I installed the new one and did a test run the next day. I can definitely see the water swirling much more in the expansion tank around 190 and the temp drops back to about 185 for a short time. I was able to let it run at 2,200 RPM for about 15 minutes this time before it reached 230 and I shut it down.

[DAVID GAGNARD]

Now at least that part is working correctly........I don't like the fact that your temp went up to 230 though, have you tested your gauge????
Do you have a shop fan or any extra fan in front of the radiator on while running the motor?????? any fan is better than no fan......this will definetly help and is needed for the break-in peroid....

Running underdrive pulleys??? anti-freeze???what %?????

A lot of varaibles can make it go to that high a temp, which to me is too much, I would have shutdown the motor once it went anything past 210.......

David

[tgitchel]

Thanks for the reply David.

I haven't tested the guage yet, but my stove test and opening of thermostat during running both showed 190.

Yes, I have a big shop fan in front of the radiator as well as the heavy-duty radiator fan on the rear, plus a vent fan pulling fresh air from a door on the up-wind side.

My pulleys are OEM size as far as I know. My anti-freeze is about 30%.

My timing is 25 degrees at 2,200 RPM. Should I mess with this?

I have bigger jets on the secondary side of my carb. I've heard I could temporarily swap these with the primaries to get it to run richer during break-in.

All of the headers look even and consistent with slight greying of the ceramic from the head to the collector.

[DAVID GAGNARD]

30% anti-freeze is good, check your pulley sizes, you want the water pump pulley to be about two inches smaller in diameter than the crank pulley.........

Timing and jetting should be as per engine builders recomendations, not knowing anything about the engine, I'd go with whatever the builder suggest........

230 just seems high to me even for a break-in run......break-in runs will generally produce more heat than afterwards, but I still prefer it to be down in the 190 to 210 range regardless......

Put the big shop fan as close to the radiator opening of your car you can get it, I put them within inches of the car, just make sure it will not "walk" on you and hit the car......

Not knowing exactly how your cooling system is set-up with the radiator and overflow tank, if possible leave the radiator cap off the radiator if you can......I do this on my engine run-in stand, it lets me see the flow thru the radiator, normally I start with the water level 3 or 4 inches down from filler neck of the cap, once the thermostat opens and water starts circulating, the water level will drop and I add water slowly till it'll maintain a level of about 2 inches from the cap opening.....if things are working right at 2,200 rpms, you'll see water shooting out with some force out of the upper flues of the radiator.......if it is just trickling out, your not getting enough flow...

after your break-in run,and things cooled down, did you check the level of coolant in the radiator itself???? if not, do this, it may be low.......I'd do another 10 to 15 minute run and if it's still getting up to 230, shut it down, let things cool off and begin checking your hoses and coolant level,leaving the radiator cap off if possible will also help purge any air trapped in the system.....I've seen it take 2 or 3 ten minute runs to purge all the air out of a system......

good luck and keep us posted.........

David

[tgitchel]

I will check the pulley size tonight.

Timing and jetting are per builder specs.

It seems like it would continue to rise above 230 if I didn't shut it down. Who knows how far it would go.

My big shop fan is about 3-4 inches from the front of the car. There is only about 2-3 feet of space on the other side of the fan and the air all around the car gets pretty warm during the run since this is a small garage with not much ventilation.

The radiator is completely full since this car uses a separate expansion tank that is above the radiator top level. I leave the cap off until about 200 degrees. I have opened the top bleed valve in the radiator and just fluid comes out with no air.

After cool down, the level in the expansion tank is about an inch to inch and a half or so (right up to the baffel separating lower and upper sections).

[Bobcat]

You might also try using some of Moroso`s water wetter as it will help lower temps . Do you have a temp gun ( infrared ) ? That could help you verify what you are seeing .

Bob

[PatBuckley]

Make sure your radiator fan is turning the right direction and also MAKE SURE that you put a couple of fans along the side of the car so the side pipes don't blister your paint while you are sitting still with hot side pipes..

[Snakebit]

I have tried every 180 thermostat that is made. Moroso, Mr Gasket, Stewart, Stant, and Gates. Drilled holes in the satndard stats and the all ran too cool 170. I finally settled on a 180 Gates Super Stat and the temp holds at a steady 180.

Are you running a bypass hose from the water pump and the intake manifold? I could not regulate the temperature with out one, it ran too cool at speed and over heated sitting at a stop light. After I added the bypass hose, everything was normal. When I changed the coolant, I just filled it up and ran it up to temp. I shut it off, let it sit overnight, and had to add about 8 oz of coolant for the expansion tank to be half full when cold.

[tgitchel]

Puller fan is definitely blowing the right direction.

Looks like water pump pulley is bigger than the crank pulley, so under driven which could be a problem I guess. I do have the bypass hose installed.



Here is the shop fan setup I am using:


I was worried about the paint on the fenders and the sides, but this fan keeps them just warm to the touch (before this fan they got very hot to the touch).

[DAVID GAGNARD]

You definetly have under drive pulleys, I'd get rid of them ASAP.......They only compound the heating problem.......If you talk with any tech guy from any radiator manufacter or water pump manufacter with a problem, the first question they will ask is" do you run under drive pulleys"?????, if so,get rid of them, try it again then call back........under drive pulleys are recommend for "race only" applications.........You'll never notice or feel the 5 to 8 hp they claim your saving!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You can get some stock pulleys from a junkyard, bead blast them and paint them any color you like or buy the nice polished alumimun March pulleys, but ask first about the pulley size......

For a Cobra with a limited size radiator and big block motor, I'd recommend the crank pulley be no less than two inches in diameter larger than the water pump pulley....that way your over driving the water pump at low speeds and flowing a greater volume of water thru the motor/radiator......

10 years ago I had them (under drive pulleys) on my 65 fastback, had problems in city driving, tried 3 different radiators and maybe 5 electric fans (pullers) and added an electric pusher up front, it all helped, but never to my satisfaction till I started expirementing with varouis size pulleys..

What I found was the minimum I could run in city driving without constantly looking at the temp gauge was pulleys of the same size, then my water temp would creep up to about 210, once moving it would quickly drop back to 180......right now my crank pulley is 1.50 inches in diameter larger than my water pump pulley and I have a Griffin alum. radiator, 31 inches wide, 19 inches tall with a 19 inche diameter Caddy electric fan.....the car has done numerous parades, mostly Forth of July when the outside temp was 100 degress, it'll idle and stay on 180 for about the first 30 minutes, after that, it starts creeping up and takes about another 15 to 20 minutes to get to 200/210, which I can live with a couple of times a year in parades, once the parade is done and I get on the road at any speed above 40 mph, it'll cool back down to 180 in about one mile!!!!!!!!!!! all this is in a 65 fastback, 351-W, 350 hp.........

I have my electric fan on a manuel switch and on the highway or at speeds of 40 mph or above, I don't have to turn the fan on at all, only in stop/go/city driving do I turn the fan on...

David

[elmariachi]

x2 on that pulley setup, take it back to stock and work from there. New gauges/senders can be the culprit so get a $50 Infrared tester like this: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SID-MT-200/ ASAP so you can check for hotspots on your radiator and other places like the intake manifold and headers.

Its pointless to let that engine get to 230F repeatedly because even at 200F at idle something is wrong. Your car shoud idle at 185-190F all day long if its set up right. Been there, done that.