AAaagghhh - still no brake lights or turn signals!! - Page 2

rodneym · #21 (**permalink**) 04-22-2014, 03:29 PM

BTW, what's a trailer relay?

patrickt · #22 (**permalink**) 04-22-2014, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rodneym

BTW, what's a trailer relay?

It takes the two inputs (brake lights, turn signal light) and lets those two inputs work together on a single filament. So, it allows the filament to "blink" when you have the turn signal on and are braking at the same time. In that case, it takes the two positive feeds and allows neither to pass to the filament.

rodneym · #23 (**permalink**) 04-22-2014, 03:34 PM

So, the relay with 8 leads instead of 4, if memory serves???

patrickt · #24 (**permalink**) 04-22-2014, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rodneym

So, the relay with 8 leads instead of 4, if memory serves???

No, it has three inputs. Left signal, Right Signal, and Brakes. It has two outputs. Right bright filament and Left bright filament. "Tail Lights" do not run through the relay.

rodneym · #25 (**permalink**) 04-22-2014, 03:41 PM

Maybe I was thinking of an isolating relay.

DanEC · #26 (**permalink**) 04-22-2014, 04:49 PM

I think it's more complicated than that. With the turn signal on and no braking, the only load is from the blinker element in the one bulb, plus what ever load contribution backfeeds from the front blinker element through the turn signal switch, plus the flasher unit.

While the flasher and front turn signal functions on a left signal, it's not functioning on a right signal - something is different on the right signal circuit versus the left one. I need to go back through all the connections on the right front parking/signal light and see if there is some reason for this. There is enough load to operate the flasher on the left side but not on the right side.

I also installed the panel over the master cylinders a couple months ago and wonder if I might have pinched a wire from the brake light circuit down there.

By the time I get this figured out I'm going to miss the spring season.

patrickt · #27 (**permalink**) 04-22-2014, 05:10 PM

Well, you'll be able to just plug in the new turn signal and flasher without doing a whole lot -- you don't have to actually put it on the column. It could always be the voltage leakage from the turn signal throwing off the circuitry. That would be nice.

mickmate · #28 (**permalink**) 04-22-2014, 06:08 PM

The trailer relays are what is used on a trailer behind American wiring that uses the brake light bulbs as indicators as well. They are simply diodes that only let electricity flow one way. Because the bulbs are used for both if you switch the indicator switch without diodes it also makes both the brakes work and flash. Are the diodes hooked for electricity to flow in the correct direction? They are like a one way valve.

DanEC · #29 (**permalink**) 04-23-2014, 05:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mickmate

The trailer relays are what is used on a trailer behind American wiring that uses the brake light bulbs as indicators as well. They are simply diodes that only let electricity flow one way. Because the bulbs are used for both if you switch the indicator switch without diodes it also makes both the brakes work and flash. Are the diodes hooked for electricity to flow in the correct direction? They are like a one way valve.

Nick - as far as I can tell I've got it flowing in the right direction. There is a third wire coming in for power from the brake light switch and the relay is marked "To Vehicle" and "To Trailer" or something like that. There is also something going on with left side versus right side so I think I'm going to go back through all the signal light connections on the right side and see if I can figure out why the front signal light also isn't flashing over there. Maybe I have a loose ground at the front, loose connection or pinched wire somewhere.

Jim Holden · #30 (**permalink**) 04-23-2014, 01:49 PM

Have you checked all of the "pin" connections in the rear harness to be sure that the correct wire is feeding its correct counterpart?

It's extremely rare, but it wouldn't be the first time that ERA' Quality Control Supervisor missed a "crossed" wire...

Jim

kevins2 · #31 (**permalink**) 04-23-2014, 02:08 PM

Jim,

If I recall correctly from Dan's original thread on this problem, everything was working properly and then stopped working without any changes being made. If I recall that correctly, it isn't a crossed wire. But since you mentioned pin connectors, when I put my wiring together a few things didn't work initially and I discovered 3 pins that weren't "clicked" into the pin connectors. So, when I connected them, those wires just pushed out and didn't make connection. It was easy to correct - just click the pins into place. So Dan, a long shot, but it is possible that you have a wire that was making a connection but then the pin backed out a bit more from vibration. You've probably already checked all the connections at this point...

patrickt · #32 (**permalink**) 04-23-2014, 02:55 PM

It should not be this hard. If you just put the relay on the kitchen table, attach 1157 bulbs to both of the output wires and the negative post of the battery, then feed 12v positive to the middle input wire (brake lights), the bulbs will light, unless the relay is bad. There is no tricky back feeding involved from the turn signals, no nothing -- you don't even have to hook them up. It's that simple for the first leg of the test -- you just leave the turn signal inputs alone, don't even hook them up.

DanEC · #33 (**permalink**) 04-23-2014, 03:40 PM

It's fixed. I'm embarassed to state what it was. I'm an electrical idiot - which I have always admitted.

patrickt · #34 (**permalink**) 04-23-2014, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanEC

It's fixed. I'm embarassed to state what it was. I'm an electrical idiot - which I have always admitted.

Alright. As a matter of courtesy we'll just leave it at that.

strictlypersonl · #35 (**permalink**) 04-24-2014, 04:51 AM

Dan,

Send me a P.M. about what the problem turned out to be. If, for no other reason, I can mention the situation in the Wiring Primer.

DanEC · #36 (**permalink**) 04-24-2014, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strictlypersonl

Dan,

Send me a P.M. about what the problem turned out to be. If, for no other reason, I can mention the situation in the Wiring Primer.

Done - Patrick, you will be able to read about it under the newly added section of Bob's Electrical Primer titled, "Dufus Mistakes"

ERA Chas · #37 (**permalink**) 04-24-2014, 11:27 AM

Don't be so hard on yourself Dan. You only did about a jillion other things right in this build.
But if you only added another hundred HP.......................

patrickt · #38 (**permalink**) 04-24-2014, 11:50 AM

Chas is right. When you have a 1,000 Cobra tweaks swimming around in your head, it's easy to overlook whether or not the garage door is open before you start backing out....

RodKnock · #39 (**permalink**) 04-24-2014, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patrickt

Chas is right. When you have a 1,000 Cobra tweaks swimming around in your head, it's easy to overlook whether or not the garage door is open before you start backing out....

Or maybe he was working on his son's soapbox racer thinking it was his ERA.

kevins2 · #40 (**permalink**) 04-24-2014, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ERA Chas

Don't be so hard on yourself Dan. You only did about a jillion other things right in this build.

Yeah, Dan, exactly right. If we started a thread titled "mistakes I made when building my car" and could get everyone to put ego aside and fess up, it would go on for hundreds of pages, I'm sure.