Alternator / Voltage Regulator

[davids2toys]

Rick and Patrick,
Holy crap, I am getting educated big time...my head hurts
I understand everybody has their own way and interpretation of the best way to do things. I consider myself very fortunate to be able to get educated by people who are much smarter in areas I am not so swift in.
So after after researching what a fusible link is, I like that idea. It said to run 4 sizes under the wire to be protected. So if I am using 10 wire, then use 14 ga fusible link wire? Can you put this on the neg wire or just on the positive? Or both? Rick, you said you hooked up your POS with a 40 Amp fusible link. I am only seeing fusible links in wire sizes ex:14 gage...no specific amp rating. Did I miss something here?
My plan at this point is to lengthen the neg wire back to the trunk where the neg off the battery grounds to the frame. I think I will not lengthen the 12 gage POS wire but just connect it to the "unprotected" side of the CB on the firewall or the hot side of the solenoid with the fusible link(16 gage) in between 12 gage POS wire and the connection point. Does this sound OK? I also read no longer than 9' for a fusible link. Is shorter better?

Patrick you are saying you are running an MSD 50A CB? I thought you were using the one on the firewall from ERA( I am presuming it is from ERA). I do not know the rating on this CB.
Nice idea with the pin holes...maybe a #50 drill? 1 hole on each end? I need to think about it a little more because that will let the air in easier including the warm and cold extremes, it might make condensation easier to form. Do you think there are any electronics right next to the cover that I might hit with the drill? I would think not, but I never had one apart. as far as what Rick said about sealing the cover, I know they are dead set against that and the fact that is is not sealed should be an air source for evaporation I would think.
I know you guys know what a drip loop is, we use them all the time in helicopters. So with water coming in as Rick described, a drip loop would be great as the water would drip off the wire before it followed the wire into the box. So I think i will make sure every wire going to the box has a drip loop and I might take a blob of clear RTV and put it at the wire entry points into the box as Rick suggests. Maybe even some duct tape over any unused ports in the box.
I always thought/assumed the wires and box did not get wet in the rain, but I have never checked. I have only been caught in the rain a few times, but as Rick said, it comes in everywhere and for it to follow the wires right into the box seems very possible.

Also got educated on the Packard connections. Looks great if it is part of your job and have all the necessary tooling. If I was building a new Cobra I think I would definitely consider going this route!

Dave

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by davids2toys

Patrick you are saying you are running an MSD 50A CB? I thought you were using the one on the firewall from ERA( I am presuming it is from ERA).

They are one in the same. That ERA furnished master circuit breaker that is on the firewall right next to the starter solenoid is rated at 50 amps.

Now here's another option that you might want to consider. You can replace that ERA furnished 50 amp "auto reset" circuit breaker with one that requires manually resetting. A little button pops out of it when it throws and you have to manually push the button back in -- just like the circuit breakers in your house.

[patrickt]

Here's info on fusible links, their ratings, etc. After I took time to think about it, I'm pretty sure I've never installed one in my life. Certainly not on the Cobra. Weather Pack Fusible Link

[RICK LAKE]

davids2toys Dave short story this time, we covered all the other info.
Fuse links or any power side of a curcuit get a protector, CB, fusable link, fuse, a bubble gum rapper. (Save this for another time)Places to get different size links in kits or wire spools'
Wiring Products 1800-549-0243 kit # FLW 12 GA Kit

White Products 1440-871-0800 service packs, got my stuff here.

Madenterprises 1559-539-7128 FL12 kit

Napa has bubble rapped kits, no 12 gauge kit or larger.

Ground wires don't need fuses because 98% of the time they are grounded and a wire rub through will not change anything to a cucruit. There is a Major catch here, alot of new systems including injectors are using the ground side to turn on and off curcuits and not the power side. Blower motors in some cars have direct power to motor and a series of resistors in a row that have different resistance to control the speed of the motor. Again another story.

Choice is yours. Overkill has worked for me. I have no luck with things so backup plans are also in play. I do like CB in some curcuits, the big old sytle ones from the 80's. The new minies ones are in alot of our new cars. There seams to be a safety built into them if a curcuit blows it more than a couple of times. They will not reset. Some are also smoked after a couple of shorts. I like the K.I.S.S. system, and it's working pretty good. Rick L. class is out, and I have no class. Later

[davids2toys]

Cute Rick...LOL
This is the job I tackle next. My new slave, fire-sleeve and clutch Master cyl came yesterday. After I get that all finished, on to this MSD thing.
I called White Products earlier today. The woman's name was Rose, she was pretty knowledgeable.
I told her about the fusible link and that I heard to go 4 sizes under the wire I am trying to protect. She said this is true. She told me I would want to protect the 12 wire rather than the 10 wire used to extend the 12 wire. Not sure I agree with this. So that means I would be buying a #16 fusible link wire. As I said ealier, I probably will not extend the POS MSD wire, just hook it up to the hot side of the solenoid with the fusible link wire in between the two. Any idea how long to make the link. I have read no longer than 9". Could you actually go to short? So how long should I make or does it not even matter?
So here is the weird part. I told her what you said about the 40 Amp fusible link wire that you used. She said a 16 gage fusible link wire is equal to 75 Amps, a 14 gage fusible link wire is equal to 110Amp. I asked her what wire would equal 40 amps and I believe she said 22 gage. So what am I missing here because that is 10 wire sizes down, not 4 as recommended???
Please straighten me out, I want to order parts but confused on this information
Thanks...Dave

[davids2toys]

Originally Posted by patrickt

They are one in the same. That ERA furnished master circuit breaker that is on the firewall right next to the starter solenoid is rated at 50 amps.

Now here's another option that you might want to consider. You can replace that ERA furnished 50 amp "auto reset" circuit breaker with one that requires manually resetting. A little button pops out of it when it throws and you have to manually push the button back in -- just like the circuit breakers in your house.

Pretty cool item.
This is what I found. They all have plastic mounts. Don't these circuit breakers need to be grounded like the metal mount type 1 auto reset presently on the car?

Manual Reset Circuit Breakers - with Bracket

http://www.ebay.com/itm/171596826353

http://www.wiringproducts.com/50-amp...gle-mount.html

I will still hook up the MSD POS wire with a fusible link as Rick suggested and you agreed. In addition, change out the ERA 50 amp CB with the manual setting type

[RICK LAKE]

davids2toys Dave I don't beleive in 100 years that the MSD 6AL draws ONLY 1 amp for every 1,000 rpms. Why the heavy 12 gauge wire then???
Remember I said overkill, THis fusible link is also like a resistor and you loss ampage going though it. IT's like a funnel you are pouring a fluid through, pour slow and you have no backup, pour fast and the funnel fills. Same applys for electrical curcuits. This is why good connections are so important.
Curcuits are tested with a steady load, not with startup spikes. Your fans on your car my draw 15-18 amps but the startup may be as high as 40-60 amps for a split second. For this second the ampage is way beyond the curcuit limit. The fuses are slow blows and are the safety protectors of the curcuit. This only last for .10 of a second. Over time a fuse or link will weakin from the heat or spike loads. I don't explain theory very good, too many days of missing school.
Any way Yes a 16# link would be ok, just no for me. The link will still blow if a dead short happens. With 12 Gauge on this curcuit I don't believe in having any problems. Other power curuits, yes with running a lighter gauge fuse, depending on the wire of that curcuit. I like to match up gauges.
PS stop finding things on the car. You are 3 hours away, any more problems, I am sending Pat to fix your car.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by RICK LAKE

PS stop finding things on the car. You are 3 hours away, any more problems, I am sending Pat to fix your car.

I'll have that thing up and running in no time -- using nothing but duct tape and coat hangar wire. No fusible links -- just a few fuses and one measly circuit breaker.

[davids2toys]

Originally Posted by RICK LAKE

davids2toys Dave I don't beleive in 100 years that the MSD 6AL draws ONLY 1 amp for every 1,000 rpms. Why the heavy 12 gauge wire then???
Remember I said overkill, THis fusible link is also like a resistor and you loss ampage going though it. IT's like a funnel you are pouring a fluid through, pour slow and you have no backup, pour fast and the funnel fills. Same applys for electrical curcuits. This is why good connections are so important.
Curcuits are tested with a steady load, not with startup spikes. Your fans on your car my draw 15-18 amps but the startup may be as high as 40-60 amps for a split second. For this second the ampage is way beyond the curcuit limit. The fuses are slow blows and are the safety protectors of the curcuit. This only last for .10 of a second. Over time a fuse or link will weakin from the heat or spike loads. I don't explain theory very good, too many days of missing school.
Any way Yes a 16# link would be ok, just no for me. The link will still blow if a dead short happens. With 12 Gauge on this curcuit I don't believe in having any problems. Other power curuits, yes with running a lighter gauge fuse, depending on the wire of that curcuit. I like to match up gauges.
PS stop finding things on the car. You are 3 hours away, any more problems, I am sending Pat to fix your car.

Rick, I am doing multiple jobs at the same time so I have multiple issues, sorry. I am not a 1/2 arse person , I like to do things right the first time and avoid learning stupid, expensive, potentially disastrous lessons.
You explained some of this well. I do understand about start up spikes vs steady running use and the importance of good connections.
Maybe I am an idiot but I still do not understand what you used when you say "40amp". Was this the fusible link wire I am looking at online? As I said, 40 amp equals a 22 gauge wire, so I am still not understanding what you used. So are you saying 16 gage fusible link wire(75 amp) is OK, but not for you? You would go with the 22gage(40amp)fusible link wire???

Yes, only 3 hours away...you are more than welcome, why don't you and Patrick come up and we will have a nice BBQ and play with my car...LOL. Also show you some awesome cobra driving roads. I have a lift if you want to put your cars up in the air to do any work or service

PS: Don't forget the duct tape Pat

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by davids2toys

Maybe I am an idiot but I still do not understand what you used when you say "40amp". Was this the fusible link wire I am looking at online? As I said, 40 amp equals a 22 gauge wire, so I am still not understanding what you used. So are you saying 16 gage fusible link wire(75 amp) is OK, but not for you? You would go with the 22gage(40amp)fusible link wire???

As you know, but I'll say it anyway, when an electric motor is turned on, there will be an initial, very large "surge" of current that will exceed the rating of the fuse. But, the fuse or circuit breaker won't blow because it takes a little more time than that to heat up the element and cause the trip. This is normal. For a dramatic demonstration, go here: 300 amp X 12 volt Circuit breaker and skip down to my post with the pic of my inductive ammeter set to measure the surge current of my starter motor (and it's the old style big guy that went in to five billion Ford cars). Yep, over 900 amps. So you know, any of our cars, even the ones with the little tiny 60 amp alternators like mine, can still crank out hundreds of amps, which can create enough heat to melt any of your wires. In choosing a fusible link, the reason you go with a gauge rating, instead of an amp rating, is because you are protecting the wire itself, as opposed to the load. A fuse will protect the load, so it's handy to just double the amperage for the load and set that as your fuse value -- even if you're feeding the load with a very, very large wire, or a small wire. Now with a fusible link, you ask yourself "what's the maximum amperage that wire will handle" and then place a fusible link along the line that will handle less than that but, of course, still exceed the combined load that is being served by the line itself. Most car wires, if you short them to ground, will carry quite a bit of amperage before they burn the insulation up -- much more than you might think.

[patrickt]

... and the MSD box really does only pull 1 amp per 1000 RPM. Here's a thread on the MSD forum where the MSD tech talks about it: https://www.msdignition.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4242

... and the box itself has a 15 amp fuse soldered to the board itself -- so there's no reason to add a fuse to your MSD box load because they've already done it for you.