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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 09-19-2015, 08:28 AM
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Default Starter Alignment

It seems that with this MSD started, the alignment is not quite right as it does not appear the starter gear has enough enagement with the flywheel. Any recommendations on how to solve?

Phil
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 09-20-2015, 04:41 PM
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Wow 79 views with no comments. I have been talking with Rick Lake. So here is the scoop, the bellhousing and block plate were previously aligned and doweled. However, the location of the bellhousing and block plate are far enough towards the passenger side of the car resulting in pushing the starter away from the flywheel. I am not sure of the cause. Could it be the wrong bell housing? Bellhousing bolts? Poor alignment of the bellhousing? Here is another pic of the problem. All the starters I have tested have the same result. Any thoughts on the best solution?

Phil
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Old 09-20-2015, 05:07 PM
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Default You found the problem

Large Arbor Phil Align the bell housing like we talked and get it centered. And recheck the starter. We can cheat .005" to the left and still be in spec. You still need to cut the block plate. 050" is the safe max for clearance between gears. I think more inmportant it getting all the gear to gear contact you can get. Our we having fun YET???? You are getting it. Rick. Ps looked up jegs cat and looked at QT bells, funny why you would have 2 different bell housing # with the same application of motor to trans.
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Old 09-20-2015, 05:31 PM
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I would also verify bellhousing alignment with dial indicator. Then see how bad the starter looks.

For depth of teeth, you could easily have a machine shop mill 1/4" from the starter nose cone or more if needed.

John
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Old 09-20-2015, 05:48 PM
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Just seeing this thread for the first time .... I had the same issue with my ERa.... Pm me and I can tell you what I did to solve my issue
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Old 09-20-2015, 06:32 PM
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Rick,

Thanks again for all the help and I am learning. I will get the dial indicator and check alignment. The block plate and bell housing are in the same location. Cutting it will not do anything for lateral alignment since the bolt holes of the bellhousing is exact same location.

Kramer - PM sent.

Phil
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Old 09-20-2015, 07:01 PM
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It happens often with aftermarket parts. I would elongate one hole first and see if that would work first, then you might have to elongate the other if one won't do it.
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Old 09-21-2015, 04:26 AM
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Default Move the pins

Large Arbor Goggle on youtube how to align a bellhousing. I think you already have adjustable pins to move it around.The pins are offset, some are .004" up to .012". They sell 3 different off set pins I told you that you can cheat my moving the bellhousing to the left of the block. Max is .010". The idea number is .000" This is in fairy tales. Getting down to .002" would be great.
Your choices for getting the starter to have full engagement is either go to a machiune shop and have them mill .150" off the mounting location of the starter or start with cutting out the block plate and retest the depth. The milling is not going to be cheap and the problem I have with this is the thckness of the mounting housing and not having it crack at the bolt holes over time. Also with this custom work, you break down, you can't goto the locate Pepboys or Autozone and get a customer machined starter. The white metal on these starters is marginal at best. Sammmy did this to his starter for the same problems you have. If the machine work to the starter works, great. A couple of years down the road you could need another starter and you are back in the same boat if it's not the bendix. You could get this starter rebuilt if they can get the parts.
Other thing, I use MSD parts in my car because at the time a was building it there was not alot of choice. Today everybody sells mini starters. I would still carry tool box and parts parts.
Align the bell and cut the plate would be the easy way. You again might have to slot the mount holes on the starter just a little to get down to the spec for teeth to teeth contact gap. I like the studs and nylocs with washers once you get into spec. Last note, the starter ring gear may not be 100% true in spinning. I have seen and found high and low spots as far as .020" out. You might want to check this also. There's not alot you can do to fix this problem. Good luck Rick Ps cutting the block plate will give you more engagement of the bendix teeth into the flywheel teeth. Less chance of breaking off teeth and having a sour sounding starter up. Plate cutting gives depth, slotting the bottom hole on the starter gives tighter air gap. May need to oblong the other hole to match the adjustment. Take as little material off as possible if slotting is done. To know how much material to remove from starter, spray a little paint or use a touch up paint and apply into the hole, add a 1/16" for clearance and expansion of the motor between hot and cold.
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Old 09-26-2015, 08:43 AM
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I tried using another block plate and it doesn't matter. Starter is still too far toward the passenger side....I will have ot have a block plate machined, a bendix gear machined, or enlarge holes to move the starter. The dowel pins have a 21 stamped on both of them.

Phil
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Old 09-26-2015, 12:04 PM
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I would 1st call Doug at ERA first to see if he has any ideas since he does this all the time... He may have some idea... I would think the starter plate would be the first place I'd start ( did u try s different starter to see if that fixes the problem ).... Having the starter plate adjusted may be less expensive
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Old 09-26-2015, 01:34 PM
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Kramer,

I will give Doug a call. I have tried at least 3 different starters. Tney have all the same issue. Just not enought lateral engagement.

Phil
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Old 09-26-2015, 03:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Large Arbor View Post
I tried using another block plate and it doesn't matter. Starter is still too far toward the passenger side....I will have ot have a block plate machined, a bendix gear machined, or enlarge holes to move the starter. The dowel pins have a 21 stamped on both of them.

Phil
Large Arbor,

I don't know if you've dialed in your bell housing as others here have suggested or not, but if you haven't, you really need to do that before you start enlarging holes, machining block plates, etc. Bell housing alignment is very important not only for your starter, but mostly for the longevity of things like transmission input shaft bearings, pilot bearings, etc. Step back, take a deep breath and take the time and effort to do a systematic, diagnostic approach to solving the problem. It really does pay off in the long run.

Ted
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Old 09-26-2015, 03:49 PM
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I wonder whether the gear on the starter is the correct (diameter) one...
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Old 09-27-2015, 07:05 AM
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I borrowed a dial indicator and the contraption was too big to make it work. I will have to find a smaller one. #@%7^!!!!!

Ted- I am going to do as you said. The existing dowels have a 021 stamped on them. If the bellhousing is off, its coming out along with the dowels and a new one is going in.

Strictlypersonl: I have tried 3 different starters and all have the same issue. It is an alignment issue.

Phil
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Old 10-05-2015, 03:39 AM
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I don't understand why, but possibly slotting the bolt holes in the starter mounting bosses may be the only way out. I would be concerned about the starter eventually backing over however. I guess another approach might be to offset drill or carefully file out the bolt holes on the starter for the next size metric or SAE bolt and ream and tap the holes in the block plate to match. How many bolts secure it to the block plate - 2 or 3? If only two you might get away with only off-set drilling one hole only to swing the starter in slightly.

Have you talked with MSD? I wonder if they possibly have some different gear diameter options.
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