Fuel Pump

Turk · #1 (**permalink**) 01-03-2002, 08:01 PM

Bob
Today was my first opportunity to drive the car in a while. Coming home I got stuck on the side of the road (no fault of yours) I ran out of gas and managed to destroy the Holley Mechanical fuel pump by running it dry.
No amount of fuel in the tank would help.
I was able to blow fuel through the lines,There is no blockage in the filter. The pump will just not transfer fuel. Period.

I am sitting here and getting ready to order another replacement pump. I also want to go ahead and take advantage of the electric fuel pump prewiring that came with the car.
I believe it is attached to that third toggle switch on the dash.

How can I have redundant fuel pumps, mechanical and electric at the same time?
Can I install the electric fuel pump right ahead of the fuel filter by the tank and have the fuel then run through the mechanical pump as well?
Or do I have to have bypass lines, regulators etc?
Any advice would be appreciated.

I don't intend to wait on the side of the highway for a tow truck again. Not for fuel pumps anyways.
Damn Holley pump. Damn Smith gauge for indicating more fuel than I actually had.

Can you recommend a reliable and good electric fuel pump by make and model?

TURK

Bob Putnam · #2 (**permalink**) 01-04-2002, 04:41 AM

Turk, Turk, Turk...

People run out of gas all the time, and they don't trash their pumps. Your Karma must be at a low point right now.

Right up front, I don't like electric pumps: Noise, complication, and they pressurize the entire fuel line from tank to carb. We've had very good luck with heavy duty mechanical pumps.

Most mechanical pumps will pass fuel, but there's a small pressure drop. Non-rotary electric pumps will be the same way. I suspect that a rotary pump may be worse. The best way to do a redundant system is to have separate lines from the tank, and you might need a check valve with some pumps. In short, it's complicated.

Put a new mechanical pump in.

427Aggie · #3 (**permalink**) 01-04-2002, 04:48 AM

Hey Turk why is your gauge reading wrong? Are you sure you are looking at it right

hehehe

I hate the eletrical pumps...too loud..

Have fun....did you get any dates on the side of the road?

Matt

CobraEd · #4 (**permalink**) 01-04-2002, 05:13 AM

Turk, a mechanical pump is just a lever with a rubber diaphram to pump the fuel. Running it dry should do nothing. If you have an electric pump too, that might burn out if it is continually spinning with no fuel to lubricate it. A good mechanical pump is all you need even for 2 carbs. Besides, a mechanical pump only puts out 7-8 psi which is exactly what carbs need. The electric pumps put out 15+ psi which is needed for fuel injection, but way too high for a carb an so requires a fuel presure regulator to bring the psi back down to where it should be. Another thought might be that your electric pump developed so much presure, that it blew out the diaphram in your mechanical pump! Check you crankcase for gasoline!!

So:

If you have an electric pump in series with your mechanical pump, I would check that as your problem, and then throw it away and stick with mechanical only.

Ed

Turk · #5 (**permalink**) 01-04-2002, 11:17 PM

Thanks guys.
I think I will stick with just the mechanical pump for a while. Maybe I got a bad one.
It was a Holley fuel pump, maybe it just went bad. As a matter of fact when I called Summit to order another I was told they are on back order until January 29th. Very unusal for Summit. Very possible there was a bad batch of them around and I am not the only one who needed their pump replaced.

I ordered a Carter, to see if I will have better luck with that one.

I am not 100% sure I was totally out of gas. Maybe just the pump went and I thought I was out of gas.
As for the gauge! It read half a tank when the car started cutting out and then when it came to a complete stop and wouldn't fire unless I poured gas into the carbs, it read FULL.
Thank you Mr. and Mrs. Smith!!

TURK

Dave Samson · #6 (**permalink**) 01-04-2002, 11:26 PM

Hey Turk,

Was that gauge indicating half-full or half-empty ?

Mr Smith

Turk · #7 (**permalink**) 01-04-2002, 11:31 PM

Dave Samson
I don't know. I am not too familiar with the metric system!

TURK

Dave Samson · #8 (**permalink**) 01-04-2002, 11:34 PM

Turk,

Does that mean you are an imperialist ?

cobrajeff · #9 (**permalink**) 01-05-2002, 04:28 AM

I guess Turk's probably not a Smithsonian, either?

cobrajeff

Turk · #10 (**permalink**) 01-05-2002, 05:25 PM

This time the blame crosses all boundaries.
It wasn't the Turks who forgot to put gas in his car. or the English with their faulty gauges, it was the Americans with their damn Holley mechanical fuel pump.

Today I got the new pump from Summit, a Carter. Got under the car and pulled the old pump out. The spring, the retainer that holds the lever and few other odds and ends were all mangled. The pump had self destructed!

Ironic part of it, the way my engeine is built it uses all kinds of 30-35 year old parts. What broke? One of the few brand new parts I had installed!!

If I had known that I would have pulled a 35 year old fuel pump from one of the junk yards, instead of a brand new shinny chrome plated Holley!

Thanks for all the support. I'll give the mechanical pumps one more try before we electrify the system.

TURK

427Aggie · #11 (**permalink**) 01-05-2002, 08:19 PM

Turk,

I put a Carter in mine when I rebuilt the engine....you should be fine...I say that now mine will probably blow to hell....

Oh well trust me I got rid of my electric pump because I just can't stand the noise from those things

Later.

Matt

cobrajeff · #12 (**permalink**) 01-06-2002, 06:36 AM

Turk -

I think I know what your problem was.....the Holley pump just can't survive on STRAIGHT Raki.........you've got to DILUTE the stuff! If you're nice to BLACKJACK - he MIGHT share with you his formula for adding Raki to the tank without making it too strong!

I run a Holley electric thru my mechanical...have already blown a diaphram in the pressure regulator once.....

better luck to you with the Carter....

regards,

cobrajeff

Ikestaa · #13 (**permalink**) 02-11-2002, 08:27 PM

This may sound rediculous, but when you refer to the mechanical pump, I assume you are talking about the pump mounted on the front of the block? If not, please help me get it straight.

cscott67 · #14 (**permalink**) 02-11-2002, 09:09 PM

Turk, glad to hear ya fixed it, and at least the american motor is still working! ;o) You guys are hillarious with all the cut-ups on here!

Ikestaa, the mechanical pump is the one attatched to the block,usually driven by the camshaft. Electric pumps are usually put in the tank for safety and as before mentioned,sound. I thought you had to be a gearhead to drive a cobra, I guess some of us are just raised with wrenches in our hands! Scott

Ikestaa · #15 (**permalink**) 02-12-2002, 06:35 PM

Thank you for answering my question, and making me sound like an idiot.

Dave Samson · #16 (**permalink**) 02-12-2002, 07:07 PM

Ikestaa,
You can be sure that lots of guys are learning lots of things from responses to questions that you are honest enough to ask. Keep it up.
It's not a matter of being an idiot, rather still young enough to be somewhat naive.

CSX 4027 · #17 (**permalink**) 02-12-2002, 07:22 PM

I have the "Original" electric twin Stewart Warner 240-A's mounted in the trunk and a Carter High volume mechanical on the motor. There are 2 lines run from the tank with a bypass at the mechanical so I can run with either electric,mechanical or both. The Carter is tricked out for good flow. My pressure is 7 all the time either with the electric or the mechanical or both.
PS, This is the original set up and configuration and it works great.
-Steve

Turk · #18 (**permalink**) 02-12-2002, 10:07 PM

CSX 4027

Steve,
I would love to set mine up the same way. I went for the easy fix, which was to walk away from Holley completely after two failed pumps.I installed a Carter.

As a matter of fact when I called Summit for a replacement Holley, I was told there would be a 30 day delay in shipment. I don't ever remember ordering anything (however exotic) from Summit that took 30 days to recieve.

They must have had a heck of a run on FE fuel pumps, or they were busy replacing them. I find it difficult to think there are that many people building FE motors, that would cause the shortage.

I may be mistaken, but it is my understanding they are still out of Holley pumps as we speak.

If you have a way of sketching your plumbing and email it to me, I would really appreciate it.

TURK
I see you still have the car. Keep it!

Turk · #19 (**permalink**) 02-12-2002, 10:20 PM

cscott67
I am glad you are enjoying our cut-ups.
If it wasn't that type of contribution to the forum, I would have a lot less posts. Than goodness, some with a weird sense of humor have enjoyed our nonsense.

cobrajeff
I don't think I am the ONLY one having problems with Holley, but what do I know? It wasn't the RAKI, the darn thing would even tolerate a modest 91 octane, do you think it would last more than five minutes with "Tiger's Milk"?

427Aggie
How long did you have your Carter in your car. I am happy with mine so far.

TURK

Hotfingrs · #20 (**permalink**) 02-13-2002, 04:13 AM

There are plenty of places out there that sell mechanical pumps made for NASCAR. NASCAR doesn't allow electric pumps for safety reasons, so companies take hipo fuel pumps and rework them. If a 750horse engine running 8000-9000rpms doesn't have fuel problems, you wont either. These pumps sell in the 80.00 range, so they really aren't any more than a good pump. I have one of these on my car, and haven't had any problems.