Gt-40 Cooling (or Lack Thereof). - Page 3

Frank Coppola · #41 (**permalink**) 06-13-2002, 12:13 PM

Blackjack,

Sorry to hear about your problems and frustrations. Trust me, I have been there! I know one thing for sure, you WILL fix this. It only takes time and money! I'll buy you a beer at DVSFII and I'll tell you a story that will make you feel better. I promise!

Hang in there!

BLACKJACK · #42 (**permalink**) 06-17-2002, 12:06 PM

JOHN, FRANK,

THANKS FOR THE COMMENTS AND THE SYMPATHY.

SYMPATHY IS GOOD - - - - BEER IS BETTER !!

JOHN - I THINK I'LL HANG ONTO THE '40 A WHILE LONGER.

HECK, I HUNG IN THERE WITH MY EX-WIFE FOR 16 OR 18 YEARS (OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT) AND SHE WASN'T NEAR AS PRETTY AND DIDN'T HAVE ANY OF THE "CLASS" OF A GT-40.

OF COURSE THERE WERE SOME SIMILARITIES THOUGH.

** VERY HIGH MAINTENANCE COSTS.

** VERY UNPREDICTABLE.

** NOTHING SEEMS TO WORK FOR EITHER OF THEM.

** THEY BOTH HAVE A REALLY SHI%%Y DISPOSITION.

Y'ALL HAVE A REALLY GREAT DAY,

BLACKJACK

PS: JUST TALKED TO BRIAN AT ERA AND HE IS SHIPPING ME A NEW RADIATOR - WITH THE BLEED VALVES ALREADY INSTALLED. HOPEFULLY SOMEWHERE WHERE IT GETS WET.

BJ.

Bob Putnam · #43 (**permalink**) 06-17-2002, 03:42 PM

Jack,

Well... I blew into the holes and at least they weren't blind.

The new radiators also have a couple of drains in the bottom. All the fittings are 1/8" NPT, so if Bryan's already shipped the piece, you'll need three plugs. (Sorry, but I forgot to tell him...) If it gets shipped tomorrow, I'll throw them in.

BLACKJACK · #44 (**permalink**) 06-19-2002, 05:36 PM

THANKS, BOB,

YOU GUYS ARE THE GREATEST. I REALLY APPRECIATE ALL THE HELP.

THE "REAL" TEST IS GOING TO COME WHEN I GET THE WATER PUMP IMPELLER OFF AND THE THERMOSTAT REMOVED.

IT APPEARS THAT I HAVE TO REMOVE THE ACCESS PANEL BETWEEN THE COCKPIT AND THE ENGINE BAY TO GET TO THEM. IN ORDER TO GET TO THE ACCESS PANEL DO I HAVE TO REMOVE THE SEATS ??? MY 4 POST LIFT DOESN'T WORK - NO ELECTRICITY IN WHATS LEFT OF THE GARAGE. CAN THE SEAT BOLTS BE GOTTEN TO WITH THE CAR ON THE FLOOR ??

THANKS, AND, Y'ALL HAVE A REALLY GREAT DAY.

BLACKJACK

ToyCollector · #45 (**permalink**) 06-19-2002, 06:39 PM

Hey Jack,

Start with the timing. Post to all of us that you have checked it and it is where it should be, then we can focus on cooling/fans/etc. My cobra just ran hot, real hot, by being off in timing, and once it gets hot and starts burping water, you also introduce air, and it just gets worse. Check the timing and rule it out right away. Sorry I didn't see this post sooner (work is nuts), but I also just experienced this one two weeks ago....

Now I just need to helo-coil the darn distributor hold down bolt threads which may have caused the above

Take care.

BLACKJACK · #46 (**permalink**) 06-26-2002, 01:52 PM

HI, T.C.

THANKS FOR THE REPLY. NO, I DIDN'T CHECK THE TIMING RECENTLY. (THE TIMING LIGHT AND MANY OF MY TOOLS AND INSTRUMENTS ARE "TOAST").

I RATHER DISCOUNTED THE TIMING - ALTHOUGH YOUR POINT IS CERTAINLY WELL MADE - BECAUSE THE PROBLEM IS INTERMITANT. SOMETIMES IT WILL RUN "COOL" FOR HOURS ON END AND THE NEXT DAY IT WILL OVERHEAT IN A MATTER OF MINUTES.

I'M REASONABLY SURE THAT IT IS A MATTER OF DEMONIC POSESSION. BOB PUTNAM HAS PROMISED TO SEND A FEW JESUITS TO PERFORM A PROPER EXORCISM IF THE NEW RADIATOR DOESN'T WORK

THANKS AND - - - Y'ALL HAVE A REALLY GREAT DAY,

BLACKJACK

ToyCollector · #47 (**permalink**) 06-26-2002, 07:55 PM

Have him send some two legged hotties as well while he is at it, in case the Jesuits don't do their thing. It will comfort you in time a of need

BLACKJACK · #48 (**permalink**) 06-27-2002, 09:47 AM

T.C.

IF I ASKED BOB FOR SOME TWO LEGGED "HOTTIES" - UPS WOULD DELIVER A LARGE BOX AND WHEN I OPENED IT - OUT WOULD JUMP PETER AND BRYAN.

I THINK I'LL JUST WAIT FOR THE JESUITS.

Y'ALL HAVE A REALLLY GREAT DAY,

BLACKJACK

Dominik · #49 (**permalink**) 07-30-2002, 05:32 AM

BJ,

So here I came, and thought it may have been the wiring to the fan(s).
I had now the chance to read the whole story and I am very interested about the solution.

I feel with you having had similar bad experiences, but that seems to be part of the game.
Six Big-Block Cobras later I used to laugh when people tell me about overheating problems - until today.

Good luck,

Dominik, Cape Town

BLACKJACK · #50 (**permalink**) 07-31-2002, 06:48 PM

THANKS FOR THE NOTE, DOMINIK.

I'M STILL BURNING INCENSE, MAKING CHALK MARKS ON THE WALLS AND DRAWING CIRCLES ON THE GROUND.

I HAVEN'T HAD MUCH OPPORTUNITY TO WORK ON THE GT-40. THE TEMPERATURE HAS BEEN IN THE VERY HIGH NINTIES AND SEVERAL DEGREES HOTER IN THE BURNED OUT GARAGE. I HOPE TO GET IN AGAIN ON FRIDAY AND TRY TO BLEED IT OUT AGAIN. IT APPEARS THAT I'VE GOTTEN ALL OR MOST OF THE AIR OUT OF THE SYSTEM BUT IT'S STILL OVERHEATING.

PARKED IN THE GARAGE, WITH THE A/C RUNNING THE TEMP RISES SMOOTHLY TO ABOUT 188 DEGREES. THE ELECTRIC FANS COME ON AND IT GOES BACK DOWN TO 182.

IF I TAKE IT OUT ON THE ROAD - DRIVING 35 TO 40 MPH WITH THE OCCASSIONAL RED LITE - IT GRADUALLY CLIMBS UP TO 240 DEGREES.

I'VE GOT GOOD BLEED POINTS NOW - AT THE TOP OF THE RADIATOR, ON THE UPPER HEATER HOSE AND AT THE TOP-FORWARD END OF THE INTAKE MANIFOLD.

I'M CONVINCED THAT MY EX-WIFE HAS A MODEL OF A GT-40 THAT SHE STICKS PINS INTO.

I WILL REPORT ANY PROGRESS - - -IF AND WHEN.

Y'ALL HAVE A REALLY GREAT DAY,

BLACKJACK

ToyCollector · #51 (**permalink**) 07-31-2002, 07:25 PM

BlackJack,

Hate to be a pain in your arse...Did you ever check the timing? I retimed mine and all my ill's went away. I burped what little air was in there from the upper heater hose near the distributor. Do a search for a post of mine about two weeks ago to hear the story. You may have similar gremlins. On the big blocks, bad timing has worse symptoms at idle than at higher RPMS (so I have heard). Just trying to help.

mr bruce · #52 (**permalink**) 07-31-2002, 07:31 PM

www.evanscooling.com

a427sc · #53 (**permalink**) 07-31-2002, 07:52 PM

This Evans system sounds like the Mecca system from 15 years ago. Mecca is now joined with Canton.

Don

mr bruce · #54 (**permalink**) 08-01-2002, 04:09 AM

hey Fez. That Meeecca stuff used to have the propencity to CATCH FIRE! if you got a leak. I think the Evans people have fixed that problem.Meecca used polypropoleen, same stuff Glidden used to win 10 NHRA Pro Stock titles. (undetectable wen mixed with gas)I think I read old Smokey was the cat that discovered the crap.Used it in his Hot Vapor engines.

a427sc · #55 (**permalink**) 08-01-2002, 04:56 AM

Bruce

If you feel fire when you leak, better get a shot, you got a dose buddy.

RACER X #99 · #56 (**permalink**) 08-01-2002, 05:00 AM

Bruce,
Fez,

How come I never heard of the Nascar boys using this stuff? Supposedly all they use is water.

Cranky

Dominik · #57 (**permalink**) 08-01-2002, 06:23 AM

blackjack,

you heard it all and from all sides and for a long time.

summary:
you started with heating up at speeds under 30 - 35 mph, in between it ran okay apart from the other day when ambient temperatur went up. now it is overheating over 30 -35.

for now I would buy bob's input about the slipping impeller or fan belt, or daniel's distributor pin theory if it also explains your intermittent problem.
also craig'd fuse / electrical problem seems alright (well, wrong for your car)

if the car is cooling properly in the garage at idle via the fans as you experience now, the amount of air moved through the radiator is sufficient. you may let it heat up to 230 F and than only switch the fans on, plus you may block 30% of the radiator's surface to check your (fans) reserve.

of course, there is no engine load at idle.

at speeds around 35 mph you shouldn't need any fans at all if the radiator is correctly shrouded.
worst would be that they switch on (which you can't hear), but still they should be cooling - if running in the correct directon!

you do not have a fan in front AND in the rear of the radiator, a puller and a pusher which may lead to (not blade stall) air stall. meaning no air is moved through the radiator. (that would not be intermittent)

the accurate bleeding is one thing, but how can you be sure that you keep all the air out once it is done properly? your sytem (ERA's) cannot be dimensioned that close to the edge (as was on the Pantera?)

my last Cobra only started to heat up once almost a gallon of water was missing (why that happened frequently is another point). so I had a good reserve.

the timing - again... it almost sounds too simple that noone can believe it may be that.
also check the distributor gear - but it would not be intermittent, or maybe sticking advance weights?

thinking of my buddy's Can-Am there is nothing fancy at the cooling system. a bleeder at the radiator and an overflow catch tank is pretty much it. not even a swirl pot. I hate to say: maybe because it's a Chevy??? ;-)

well I know, it's not funny anymore, wasn't probably after the second day.

what I would do now is:
bleed correctly
set the ignition advance to a permanent comfortable value, (35 degrees?) the starter will start, at least when it's cold. when it's hot wire in a way that you can turn the engine without ignition and switch ignition ON after it's turning (the Can-Am has a fixed 38 degrees, starts either hot or cold)

that should eliminate intermittent ign retard problems. monitor ignition with your timing light at various engine speeds - it should not change!, as well as fan speed to listen for rpm drop when the wires get hot (acustically or with timing light, second man needed)

or alternatively: after checking the timing, hit the street, aim for 35 mph plus where the fan shouldn't be needed anymore. you may disconnect them.

that should leave the slipping impeller or fan belt and the bleeding as a potential cause of trouble. but the real problem is your bad environment to work at the moment.

did I miss something here?

another day in paradise,

dominik, cape town

cobrashoch · #58 (**permalink**) 08-01-2002, 11:06 AM

BlackJack - I'm going to give you a trade secret now and this reply is long so bear with me. I was gong to tell you this at the spring fling when you, I and Hersh was together but we got to rapping and I forgot.
I think your problem is trapped air in the heads of your engine to. None of the fixes described will KEEP the air out even if you can get the air out. So go to your friendly Chevy dealer and look at the reverse cooling setup that is on new Corvettes. You will notice 4 tubes that directly go to the top or the engine from the water pump. This is for visual referance only. Now if you go to the top of your engine(windsor?)look for the high spot of you engines coolant passages. Most cases it in the intake manifold though. Now it gets tricky. You will need to drill holes in the manifold at these high spots and weld in a fitting(s) or install fittings directly on the heads that will let you run a hose from there. Install a petcock valve on this(each) line and run this line(s)to a purge box somewhere high in your car. Then run a hose to the radiator hot side from the purge tank. You have some options now. This purge tank should have a line coming off the top of it to your expansion tank. Or you can also run the coolant out of the thermostat housing to this purge box to then on to the hot side of the radiator via a hose.
IN PRACTICE - The idea here is to crack the petcock valves just enough to let the coolant/air mix go to the purge tank. This will keep the air out. I once seen a mustang that had 4 half inch lines that were on each corner or the intake manifold. They went to the purge tank and the thermostat housing was blocked off! The car ran great and cool to. Now you may think if you run these bleed lines they can go directly to the overflow tank. In truth they can and you will be doing the same thing. But now for another tip. I am going to use a heat exchanger in a that surge tank to cool/heat my oil too, so if you just go to the overflow tank you can't use it to cool your oil to.
This tip was used in my Pantera racing days back in the late 70's I'm sorry to say. I got it from Peter Revson.(sp) In practice it made up for many of the small problems that were listed in above threads esp. in boil over situations. Should be standard equipment on all coolant cooled mid ship mounted cars in my mind.

a427sc · #59 (**permalink**) 08-01-2002, 03:18 PM

X

As a rule, glycols are flamable. Hard to believe, but I have seen a couple of fires from antifreeze. Glycols are also difficult to clean up on asphalt, very slippery as I'm sure you have experienced. So NASCAR bans them. Water is basically safe and inert, no problem.

This no-water system has been around in several variations for quite some time. I doubt that MECCA was first, but they did a lot of development with it. Desicants in the air vents from the overflow tanks, waterpump flow rates, radiator designs, developments in designs to take advantage of the high temp ranges. Smokey also used something similar. As well as reverse flow (which makes a lot more sense if you think about where you need to cool the most).

NASCAR isn't cutting edge in most areas, just the most finely deveoped antique technology you can find.

FEZ