Let's talk engines...

[SoTxButler]

Brent,

We think alike...just wondered what Rick thought was lugging down an FE.

[RICK LAKE]

SoTxButler Ross I disagree with Brent on lugging a motor. Your cam shaft has a power band to it, anywhere from 2,000 rpm to 8,000 rpm. The torque band is lower that the HP band. The motor starts lugging when you are in top gear and trying to keep the car or accellerate in top gear at a low rpm. You are not running a diesel where you can turn 1,400rpm and accellerate in to gear. You are already in the torque range of a diesel motor. The torque range is about 500 rpm below the bottom of the power band of your cam. Lugging feels like a hesitation or a miss. IMO the motor is working extra harder to turn over and will pound the bottom end bearings. It doesn't matter weather you are running 100 psi or 30 psi oil pressure. When driving your car you want to keep the motor in the power band. Most cam manufactures tell you the rpm range of the camshaft so you can also match the manifold, carb, exhaust, and cubic inches for the best power in that range. I build torque motors and have run my 3.31 rear gearing and have the motor in overdrive, (.78) pull the car along in top gear at 1,500 rpm. It is not good for the motor. The 40 lbs flywheel helps to stop the lugging with stored energy. I can't do the same thing with my 22 lbs flywheel. I sure you have driven the car at say 40 mph in 5 gear, steep on the accellerator and the car starts to buck, you then down shift and take off, that's lugging. There are things that I have learned from talking to some of the best PRO motor builders, and the top 3 all say the same thing about the damage done for lugging motors. FE has a very heavy assembly wieght. Has rod bearing the same width as a 351 windsor, yet carries about 150 to 200 grams more mass. This is one of the reasons I run HVHP oil pumps. I don't believe the number you see at the gauage is the same you see in the back of the motor or the rod bearings on #7&8. These are the rod bearings that go first in most motors with front oil supply. They are the last to get oil on startup, unless you are using a peroiler. Ross I just installed a 482 stroker kit and pulled the 452 out. I checked the bearings and they looked like the day they where installed the coating was still on them. I had a small groove in the #5 main. Not sure what caused this. All I can say after abusing my car for 8 years of autocrossing and road racing, I am having no problems with the motor. What camshaft are you running? Sorry for the rambling. I have to learn to shorten the answers, Problem is I don't want to leave anything out. Rick L.

[blykins]

Rick,

I'm sure some of our replies get lost in translation....however, I'm not talking about running an engine at 1000rpm in 5th with it bucking and missing the whole way. I'm talking about running it at a lower rpm....1500-1800 if the cam and the rest of the components warrant that. Shoot my little 302 in my Mustang will cruise all day long in overdrive at 1800 rpm without a whimper.

You have to remember, a good majority of the FE's were truck engines...352, 361, 391, etc....some in F600 and F700 heavy duty trucks. If it were so hard to "lug" these engines around, I'm sure another engine choice would have been made.

Now, take a hotter FE with a high duration cam that won't idle under 1000, then yes, I agree with you.

[RICK LAKE]

blykins Brent you are right to most of the point. I worked on U-Haul trucks alot for about a year. Some had a 4,000 rpm govenors and top speed of 64 mph on them At 3,000 rpm they had no more power. Gearing 10 spd trans amd 2 spd rearends. The trucks came loaded with coolers for all fluids on them. They made great torque to get them moving. They had heavy flywheels for stored energy to move the truck. The cam shaft was all about building torque at 1,000- 1,200 rpms. The 352 and 391 FT and 390 in the light trucks. The truck blocks where stronger in webbing and possibly core material, ( higher nickle content ) IMO all came with harder bearings than street motors. Most truck had 100K on them and running good. No knocking, No smoke, just alot of oil leaks. Your mustang is designed with 2 major things, 1st 0 emmissions with todays needs. 2nd to make the bigger powerband possible for the car to run in. As you said pull from 1,400 rpm to 6,000 rpm. Turbos or supercharger make this alot easier than straight motor. Gas mileage will suffer about 2-3 mpg. Your Mustang motor is a torque motor with a light valve train to give it the extra rpms in top end. This is what gets me, when I talk about Beehive springs. They have been in GM car since 95 with little to no failures and motors running over 150,000 miles. I have run them for 3 years( 98% racing) and love them. Again it's about matching parts for a certain power range. Diesels where not that small back in the 70's remember? It was the 80's when the first diesel was in Olds cars. 350 block with diesel heads, They also had a V6 motor. Noisy, Leaken, No Power BUT 35 mpg and could pull 20" + trailers with full loads. It couldn't get out of it's own way. Today 500-1,200 HP, 550- 2,000 FT of torque. 7,000 pound plus Dually running low 11's in the 1/4 mile. Now thats a diesel. Lug your motor if you want, I will pass, IMO it hurts the motor. Rick L.