Tired and frustrated with the glycol in oil leak..

[Excaliber]

I wonder if the alloy manufacturers don't include the price of the studs because they cost a LOT!! So the "advertised price" for a plain block "looks good". Buyer beware...

I'm reminded of a recent thread by Brent, B2Motorsports about his COMPLETE small block at a certain price (forget what it was). Someone mentioned they could get a Ford Racing small block for less. BUT, B2's motor really is complete, with all the details. Ford Racing will leave you scrambling not only for a ton of additional parts (intake, carb, flywheel, the list is long) but also BOLTS and NUTS and WASHERS and that little stuff that becomes irritating to get together.

But what does a typical consumer see? B2's price is more than Ford Racing price. Well DUH, you get what you pay for!!!

This thread leaves me without a warm and fuzzy feeling toward Pond, I'll tell you that, and I suspect Shelby and Dove play the same game. It aint cool man, someone needs to call 'em on it.

[undy]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

I wonder if the alloy manufacturers don't include the price of the studs because they cost a LOT!! So the "advertised price" for a plain block "looks good". Buyer beware...

I'm reminded of a recent thread by Brent, B2Motorsports about his COMPLETE small block at a certain price (forget what it was). Someone mentioned they could get a Ford Racing small block for less. BUT, B2's motor really is complete, with all the details. Ford Racing will leave you scrambling not only for a ton of additional parts (intake, carb, flywheel, the list is long) but also BOLTS and NUTS and WASHERS and that little stuff that becomes irritating to get together.

But what does a typical consumer see? B2's price is more than Ford Racing price. Well DUH, you get what you pay for!!!

This thread leaves me without a warm and fuzzy feeling toward Pond, I'll tell you that, and I suspect Shelby and Dove play the same game. It aint cool man, someone needs to call 'em on it.

I don't know...

From a cost perspective, if I was building a good iron block side oiler I'd want a set of new head studs to provide me with the virgin clamp I felt I needed. I wouldn't expect the iron block MFR to provide them either. The special 12 point ARP stud kit that Pond has made for them is actually less than 50 bucks more than the run-o-the-mill ARP FE stud kits that Jegs sells.

From a notification perspective, I do think either the MFR, builder or the vendor should notify the customer of the requirement if they are just buying a block, or shortblock.

Originally Posted by olddog

A good engineer told me that a good rule of thumb is "the thread engagement needs to be at least the same length as the diameter of the bolt." In other words, a 1/2" bolt needs a 1/2" of threads engaged. Now that is for steel and course threads.

Aluminum is a very poor metal to put threads into because it slowly creeps over time. Lots of different grades, with some much better than others. The extremely long threads makes sense in aluminum. As the aluminum slowly moves, the load will eventually even out over all the threads.

This explains why the bolt torqued solid, and over time the threads pulled out. What is bothering me is "if one bolt pulled out what do the other ones look like?" Remember you said the other head had a slight leak at the gasket too. Has some of those bolts stretched the threads and are no longer at torque? Could all the holes have the threads stretched.

I hate to be spending your money, but you said you like to overkill everything. Should all the holes get heli-coils put in them?

I hear ya...

When I get the new studs they're going to grab 100% more theads than the bolts did. I checked the torque and they all were still solid, with their original clamp. I will get a "feel" for the threads when I pull the bolts. I will also do a close inspect when I have the heads off. Also, in talking with Robert Pond he recommends running a bottoming tap in every hole. He said I'd thank him during assembly.

Ernie ... What you said.

Originally Posted by wetdog

I have been following your problem and I have to say that you were tenacious enough to keep at it ..sorry you missed some summer driving time but it has to feel great to finally know what caused your milkshake!
During my build I had a few bumps and after I figured them out it was the biggest relief ...mostly my wallet , hang in there and thanks for taking the time to post and take pics WD

Thanks Wetdog

As with everything like this, you never know what kind of curve that'll get thrown at ya. I kept fiddlin' with the intake, focused that it HAD TO BE THE PROBLEM. Everything pointed to it. 1) It was made by Dove 2) The leak started after it's installation. 3) It was pressure tested and repaired (last tear-down) so it had a history. 4) All the planets seemingly aligned..

New motto, if it tests good then maybe it is good ... (for now)