How do I build a 600 HP 428cj?

[tmareina]

Look in my gallery...I have a 428 FE with 614hp and 550fp torque. It has a solid roller cam,lifters, tunnel wedge intake w/ dual 660 hollyes, edelbrock allum. heads and a lot more...has 11.4 compression and runs on pump gas with about 5 gal. of av. gas added each refill or a bottle of Lucas Race Octaine boost. I have run it with just pump gas and have had no problems, however. The car is wicked fast but very streetable. You just need common sence when you drive...it runs cool and reliable. Tom Lucas at FE Specialties built the motor (he has a link on this site) and yes the motor was rather pricy BUT I feel it was well worth it. It's all about what YOU want 'cause you have to drive it and be happy with the product.

Tom

[Fordzilla]

Originally Posted by tmareina

It's all about what YOU want 'cause you have to drive it and be happy with the product.

Tom

I agree.
Nice engine Tom & enjoy your retirement.
From a fellow Lawman
Regards,

[blykins]

Originally Posted by Fordzilla

Brent, Nice numbers for a small block!

Regards,

Thanks, that was on the very first pull. I took it off the dyno early as the cam's ramps were a little too wild...even with 160/425 lb spring pressures and titanium retainers. No doubt in my mind that engine was capable of 625hp very easily.

I won't trust my cam grinder so easily next time.

While we're sharing dyno videos, here's one I did for a darkside customer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orvXF8bETJs

Very nice little engine for a '65 Nova SS build. 355 SBC, stock heads, roller cam, Performer RPM intake. 320hp on Dale's dyno.

[pop66ltd]

great engine brent,you must have fed bandit a biscuit,hes still howling for another,i just love that dog.question for you,you said you had 160 seat pressure,what cam lift were you running,it seams light,not miller light.

[blykins]

Dennis, it was a hydraulic roller, with .620" lift at 1.7RR.

However, the ramps were too aggressive. With 445ci, a 250° @ .050" camshaft shouldn't have been wild at all, but should have peaked at about 6200.

The advertised duration was 292°, with a 170° duration @ .200". It was a really aggressive lobe and it was lofting the valves.

For 445ci, it was really a mild cam, but I don't think my grinder took into account that SBF valves are a little heavier than others.

Cam degreed perfect....I'll give him that. Came in right at 112/112, then I installed it 2° advanced as he suggested.

Like I said, that was the first pull without any tuning. We made a couple of pulls, then gave up...I knew we were losing control of the valvetrain. It was flat on top and there was witness of valve float by looking at the tops of the valve stems.

Here was the first breath it ever took:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3LUrXkNhSE

[pop66ltd]

i thought it was a solid roller,you had some good numbers.thats what i like about dales dyno if it says 10 then its 10,no atmospheric unreal inflated numbers with his dyno.who ground the cam?ive been having some problems with erson on their grinds,so im going back to lunati if they dont get things straight,i also hear good things about cam research out west,you ever used them?

[blykins]

A good solid roller on that SBF would have made 675-700 hp. The heads flowed 343cfm @ .650" lift. They were Trickflow TW-R heads.

I'd stay with a reputable cam company like Comp Cams. I have a lobe catalog and I have just been picking lobes and having custom cams ground for me.

[pop66ltd]

i have a list of cam profiles that we use and was having erson grind them for us but their numbers are drifting to the point I'm fed up with it,if i order a certain grind then i expect it to come back as such +/- of coarse.but i had one the other day that was .040 off on the lift and of all things it was my exhaust side so i was screwed.Ive got a wicked blower motor to dyno next week,if you have time come on down and see it.i love those dyno sessions.talk to you soon.

[Scott M Jackson]

Forgive me for not researching it but I hopw somebody did mention the November 2008 Hot Rod Magazine.

Good luck, Scott

[Dominik]

600Hp may not be out of line if you really know what 600Hp (and the torque that comes with it) means. Hell, early 70s Can-Am Big Blocks rarely had that.

Most people who own a "600Hp" car and drive my 550Hp think I have 800Hp...
Many a client want a 514cui, because 460 is not enough, having "seen it all", but suddenly want a weaker cam in their 460.

Have you ever driven a car with 600hp and 550lbft, I mean: Did it have that much and did you DRIVE it???

My mate's 428cui features 500Hp and 450lbft. Does 10.6 e.t. on sliks with an otherwise track set-up.

Now: Your turn :-)

Dominik

[Great Asp]

Originally Posted by Dominik

600Hp may not be out of line if you really know what 600Hp (and the torque that comes with it) means. Hell, early 70s Can-Am Big Blocks rarely had that.

Most people who own a "600Hp" car and drive my 550Hp think I have 800Hp...
Many a client want a 514cui, because 460 is not enough, having "seen it all", but suddenly want a weaker cam in their 460.

Have you ever driven a car with 600hp and 550lbft, I mean: Did it have that much and did you DRIVE it???

My mate's 428cui features 500Hp and 450lbft. Does 10.6 e.t. on sliks with an otherwise track set-up.

Now: Your turn :-)

Dominik

Part of the problem is the current crop of high horsepower cars offered from the Big 3. You can buy a Z06 with 505, or the ZR1 with 650 stock. Power adders like a 3.4 whipple on a GT500 nets huge numbers, most would have more than most Cobras at the flywheel.

You go to a car show with 400 hp and people go "oh, that's nice".

I've had 550 hp, and 550ft lbs at the flywheel in a SPF, and now building a 634 hp with 666 ft lbs FE in a SPF. If it's too much I'll put a block of wood under the "wow" pedal. But if I was recommending a first time buyer the amount of horsepower, it would be 400 at the flywheel. Most people have never driven a car like that, or a car like that with a 90" wheelbase.

E

[Dominik]

Yes, of course. I didn't consider the recent Hp-war.

Dom

[Dwight]

Keith Craft 428/461 FE 601 hp and 619 tq

Great street motor for a Cobra

Mike has 8000 miles on it and loves it.


Dwight

[Great Asp]

^^^^^^^^^^^^

Monster! Very nice!

E

[Dwight]

Mike Lainhart had Keith Craft to install a stroker kit in his 427 s.o. this summer.
Mike now has a 487 c.i. side oiler with 618 hp & 638 tq Monster. All on 93 oct. gas.
I installed the motor and I have driven the Cobra 150 plus miles to break it in. Also checking for any other problems. This thing is a Monster. I love it. Idle about 1000 rpm, will turn to 7,000 without missing a beat. Coach is the one that spun it to 7000, I've kept it under 6000. And we have not pushed the pedal to the floor, yet. We'll wait till he has 500 miles on it. Smooth on the road, cruise at 1900 rpms. Easy to crank when cold. Takes about 5 minutes of run time for it to settle down and run very smooth. It rained all week so next week I'll take it to get the front and rear end aligned.

It's going to make Mike a great Christmas present.

I can highly recommend Keith Craft. Great people to do business with. Call him and tell him what you want to do with the motor/car. High horsepower race motor don't do well on the street.

Dwight

[Great Asp]

Already did call Keith!



E

[Dominik]

Lovely!

What kind of cylinder heads are on an engine like that?
I can see Edelbrock on one picture.

Dom, South-Africa

[Cobra #3170]

Originally Posted by Dominik

600Hp may not be out of line if you really know what 600Hp (and the torque that comes with it) means. Hell, early 70s Can-Am Big Blocks rarely had that.

Most people who own a "600Hp" car and drive my 550Hp think I have 800Hp...
Many a client want a 514cui, because 460 is not enough, having "seen it all", but suddenly want a weaker cam in their 460.

Have you ever driven a car with 600hp and 550lbft, I mean: Did it have that much and did you DRIVE it???

My mate's 428cui features 500Hp and 450lbft. Does 10.6 e.t. on sliks with an otherwise track set-up.

Now: Your turn :-)


Dominik

I could not agree more, first of all the FE engine design (cylinder heads and manifold) are certainly not in a league with all the new small block heads/ manifolds and just don't produce big HP numbers because of their flow numbers, valve placement, valve angles and combustion chamber design. Translation, it is hard to get big numbers from a street FE.

I have had various FE engines with flywheel horsepower of 480, 530, 585, 702, 734, and 806 in my Cobra.

The 585 Hp engine would brake traction in fourth gear with fully warmed soft compound 12" wide road race slicks @ 5500 RPM with a 3.31 rear end ratio when too much throttle was applied. Any time you have over 500 HP in a Cobra you had better have damn quick hands or you will have a big problem.

An (HONEST) 450 horsepower engine with 480-500 Lb/Ft in a Cobra is more power than any Cobra on street tires can use 95% of the time. If you have soft compound 335 rears you could probably go up to 550 or so, but then drivability or crashability can become a problem.

Modern cars with big horsepower have much more sophisticated chassis designs, greater weight, and longer wheel bases with electronic counter measures (with some exceptions) so they do not pose the mortality threat of a 90" Cobra. If you look at the statistics on Vipers, Ford GT's and Z06's you will see a high rate of low mileage crashes so they are not immune, even though some weigh 1000 lbs more than a Cobra.

[Great Asp]

Originally Posted by Dominik

Lovely!

What kind of cylinder heads are on an engine like that?
I can see Edelbrock on one picture.

Dom, South-Africa

They start as Edelbrock heads, then Keith Craft lays some VooDoo on them!



E

[Dominik]

Great, so it can be done, even though we can't utilize 600Hp. Except while having a beer ;-)
To be honest, funds permitting, I would order one.

Dom